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Are soy products bad for you?

???

It has phytoestrogens.  I don't know too much about it.  Most of what I know is from a friend who had breast cancer.  Because she has to reduce her estrogen she can't eat tofu, but her oncologist told her that the science is inconclusive at this time.  If I eat soy, I don't need to cut it out of my diet and if I don't eat it, I don't need to add it to my diet.

Personally, I don't think it's healthy to have too much of any food.  I eat soy yogurt and that's it.  I don't eat tofu or other soy products, because small amounts of soy are added to a lot of other foods.  There are a lot of ways to get protein.  Try seitan.  Vital wheat gluten is sold in baking supply aisles because it's used with bread machines.  In regular grocery stores it costs more than in HFSs, so if it's expensive in your regular store, still check out the prices at your HFS.

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I looked at the sources of that guy's article, and they aren't from any big name reputable journals  or sources (i.e. American Dietetics Association, American Cancer Society, American Medical Association, etc.). Therefore, I wouldn't take his article too seriously. If you're really curious about looking at the hard science, the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences are available online for you to search through; also, if you have access to a university library, you can browse through their online journal collections.

Like Humboldt_Honey said, you shouldn't eat a lot of any one food. Yes, soy contains phytoestrogens, but these are one of the things in soy that are good for you--estrogen is good for heart and bone health, a reason that "hormone replacement therapy" has become popular; however, estrogens should be avoided in the case the HH mentioned--breast cancer or other estrogen related cancers.

What did the gal at the store tell you was so bad?

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Where's Davedrum?  He'll help.  But check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weston_A._Price_Foundation .  Fallon is against vegetarian diets, because her WAP Foundation is funded mainly by family farmers, so there is some bias.  You can go to www.pcrm.org for veg-friendly nutrition info.  I agree with Humboldt, in that too much of any one food is not a good idea.  I do eat tofu, tempeh, and soy milk.  But I also consume whole grains, beans, rice milk, flaxseed, etc.  I really don't think that it's anything to worry about if you eat a variety of foods.  

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My husband went to the HFS to pick up some stuff for me once, and didn't know where anything was.  So he asked the owner for help, and while talking with her he mentioned that I am vegan.  She told him that that's very bad, not healthy.  When he came home he told me about it.  I just laughed, cause I feel and look better than I ever have before.  And I couldn't believe the nerve of her telling me that, basically, I am wrong.  I am buying stuff.  From you.  That makes me a customer.  AND THE CUSTOMER IS ALWAYS RIGHT.  Remember, just because a person owns, operates, works in, shops in, or hangs around the parking lot of a health food store, that does not make him or her an authortiy on nutrition or health.  Look around at as much info as you can, for both sides of the argument, and make an informed decision for yourself.

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I guess all I want to say is what was already said. Too much of anything isn't good. I think that soy is getting too much of a hype. It's not a miracle food or anything. If you have a sluggish thyroid, a soy allergy, or estrogen related problems, then that might be a special scenario, but other than that, I wouldn't worry about it unless you are eating a ton of it. I sometimes go weeks without (obvious) soy products, but usually I have maybe a soy yogurt a day, or some soymilk in baking or on granola. Every once in a while I'll buy myself a block of tofu, but that's rare.

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And by the way, welcome to Vegweb, Moonshyne!

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Unrelated to the topic, but in case other people use Chip Group vital wheat gluten... I called them about the source of their gluten and it's grown and processed in either the U.S. or Austrailia.  I don't know if any of the rest of you had concerns about your vwg following the pet food recall.

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kbuettne, that lady told me something along the lines of tofu not being fermented, so it doesn't digest well and other things like that that I don't remember too well (I was in a hurry, only intended on buying some Dr. Bronners...) i think she said that nutrients weren't absorbed well and what-all, and told me about tempeh and told me a list of vitamins I should be taking. And speaking of vitamins, I found out that there are a lot of brands that I can't take because they have gelatin. Does anyone know of a website where I can find veg safe items? I'm just sort of fumbling around blindly here, not knowing what I should do, what to avoid, yada-yada.

And thank you all so much for responding!  Really, I was not expecting anyone to respond so quickly, as I posted something similar to this at the hipforums and got zero responses. I really appreciate the help! (^.^)

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davedrum may help you since hes much more oriented with georgia thne most of us on here. i dont drink soymilk period since i can't have carageen and most soy companies put that in their milks. I drink rice dreams which is non dairy milk made from rice. At first it tastes werid but over time you will love it. the chocolate rice dreams milk is out of this world. I buy it the non cold in the section of uncold milks in the grocey store ( whole foods has it cold in the cold section)so I recomend rice dreams in vanilla and choolate, plain to bake. I dont eat tofuu, I am pertrfied of it. I eat salads with cheese for my protein. Now my salads are not your normal salads, I had a teaspoon of yeast powder in my salad and i have a fruit veggis salad with rasberry vinegrate and oil mixed together. I also recomend you make soft tacos and put refried beans in your soft tacos with some enchilida sauce. Thats good. Theere are so many ways to be a veggie. I f you need help tell me and i will give you my email. There's also non dairy chocolate which is great and i bake muffins in the morning, it takes 5 minutes to make them.I have never felt healthier in my life so don't let poeple tell you wrong.

Yeah I've had the rice dream ice cream before, it's a little flavorless but it was okay...I can imagine the milk is about the same. Not that that's a bad thing, mind you.  I can't really do a whole lot of dairy or soy anyway, because my 1 yr old has allergies to both and since I'm breastfeeding, everything I eat affects him. Do they have that soft taco recipe you're talking about on this site? That would be sooo great, since right now I'm basically living off of pb & j sandwiches, with a little flax seed thrown in.

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If your child has a soy allergy, no worries. Vegetarian and vegan doesn't mean "all I eat is tofu and soymilk". I actually don't really like soy milk and don't drink it often. I only eat tofu because, well, I think it's delicious! There are so many other wonderful sources of protein--soy is the only *complete* plant protein, but if you're eating a wide variety of foods, this doesn't really mean much. This site has AMAZING recipes! I've never had one I didn't like (but I always tend to stick with the 4 and 5 star recipes just to be safe ;) ).

We've had these tacos and they are yummy:
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=5977.0

These also look yummy, but haven't tried them yet...
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=5911.0

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According to Christiane Northrup, MD, phytoestrogens have nothing to do with the sort of estrogens the human body produces, they are NOT estrogen.  She said that there are SOME components of soy phytoestrogens which connect with human estrogen receptors, but definitely not the way that human estrogens does.

What intrigues me about this soy argument is the lack of thought behind it.  When one eats dead cow, they consume a LOT of estrogen and of a type much closer to that of the human body.  Consider the hormone replacement drug Premarin (it derives its name from PREgnant MARe urINe).  It is horse urine collected under truly cruel conditions and given to women to replace their own estrogen.  Cattle are not that far off of horses and I can't see why eating their flesh which contains estrogen would be beneficial over a phytoestrogen, as it IS the real thing.  Estrogen from cows is present in dairy products too. And pig meats and even chickens.  Anymore, many farms routinely give cows hormones to stimulate milk production and I don't care what they say, these are also present in cow's milk.

When I started to think about soy versus animal protein, phytoestrogen versus actual mammalian estrogen, I laughed at the ignorance of this soy-estrogen argument!

There are a couple of things a woman gains from going vegan.  One, because she CONSUMES less estrogen, she is reliant on what her body produces.  Often, this leads to a lengthening of the menstrual cycle, which means fewer cycles over her reproductive life and thus less of the ebb and flow of estrogen and other hormones that happens over the course of her cycle.  This is known to DECREASE breast cancer.  Because, overall (though not true for many of us) vegans tend to carry less body fat, and women's bodies store estrogen in fat, they have fewer estrogen-related problems.  More body fat, more estrogen storage and more effects from that estrogen.  Weigh less, store less, another known influence over breast cancer.

All I can say about tofu or any other soy product or any kind of food, is use in moderation.  I once ate enormous quantities of tofu because it was cheap and easy to make into almost anything, including desserts.  I didn't care for beans then because I felt that they were "too heavy" and I had trouble with my stomach (not to mention the gas).  Over the last 30 yrs or so of dabbling in vegetarianism and now veganism, I have come to love beans because they are cheaper than tofu and help to stabilize my wacky blood sugar better than anything else and I don't find them heavy anymore. So, just because one cannot or chooses not to eat tofu, doesn't mean they need animal products.  Also, be prepared for your tastes to change over time with regard to vegetarian/vegan diet.  You might not like something now that you may come to rely on in the future. 

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Great post, Ladydragonfly! Thanks for pointing out that logic!  :)

Oh, and yuck about the pregnant mare urine thing!

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This is one of those things...lately all I hear from the US is "soy is bad" (not on here), and here in Spain they talk it is like some kind of miracle food for menopausal women. I do know I like it and it is way cheaper than meat, but in my case I have to watch soy simply for the reason that my body processes it far too well and I pack on weight when I get too much soy--especially soy milk, for some reason. I gained 2 pounds from drinking a quart of soymilk over 4 days.
Balance is the key.

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Where's Davedrum?  He'll help.

HAHA...thanks Tkitty96...not sure why...but that cracked me up! ::)

Where's my *$&$^%%&*# Masked Omni cape when I need it?!

Welcome moonshyne! :)
I too live in rural GA. but up north in the mountain part of the state (near Dahlonega). With regards to eating soy, I think that it's safe as long as you are not allergic to it. As a matter of fact I'll go beyond that and say: it's healthy for you! There are so many of us here that drink lots of soy milk, use soy in recipes, eat tofu, etc. I have yet to see any adverse reaction to eating soy. I know Carmenmichelle said she's allergic to soy, but if you are not allergic...you'll be fine. Just try to stick with organic soy. The majority of soy grown in the US is grown for feed, and most of it is GMO soy. There are many soy products that are organic and that goes for tofu as well. I'd highly recommend you stick with organic soy products.

As Tkitty96 also mentioned the PCRM is a great resource for vegan nutrition. I'd say the best place for it. Do check out www.pcrm.org If you can afford to join them, the membership includes a magazine put out by them that is by far the best source of vegan nutrition I ever get my hands on.

IF you have any more questions, feel free to ask us here....You'll find us a friendly bunch of veggie munching weirdos that stray far off of topic from time to time. I have to add....I'm by far the biggest IDIOT of the bunch! ;)
-dave

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soy is a dangerous, dangerous thing. one simple bite could ruin your life forever!

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soy is a dangerous, dangerous thing. one simple bite could ruin your life forever!

muwahahaha!!!!

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Quote:
soy is a dangerous, dangerous thing. one simple bite could ruin your life forever!

Yeah, that is what happened to me.  One simple bite and I was HOOKED.

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http://www.cosmosveganshoppe.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=WVWS

http://www.anniesnaturals.com/Pages/nutrition/dietworchester.htm

Worcestershire Sauce
Worcestershire sauce is traditionally made with anchovies. There are many vegan Worcestershire sauces including varieties by Edward & Sons Trading Company and Annie's Naturals. Some grocery store brands of Worcestershire sauce are also vegan.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Cookbook:Vegan_Substitutions

Can purchase at many places online but also in HFS.  I have both Annie's and Wizard @ my local store.

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You know...I did read an article a while back (not sure where it was from, a friend emailed it to me) that said feeding too much soy to little boys may turn them into homosexuals.... ::) :D

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You know...I did read an article a while back (not sure where it was from, a friend emailed it to me) that said feeding too much soy to little boys may turn them into homosexuals.... ::) :D

The aforementioned Davedrum might have mentioned that once or twice.  ;D
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=13773.0
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=13807.0
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=13857.0

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