Vegan Queers--NVR
Posted by rhetcompgirl on Jul 09, 2007 · Member since Aug 2006 · 77 posts
I've been living in Lexington, KY for about a year now (I teach at the University of Kentucky) and I have yet to find the queer veg*n contingent. I've always found these people in the other cities I've lived in, but Lexington is lacking (and not in just veg*n queers). So, the "meat and sex drive" thread got me wondering how many veg*n queers are on vegweb and what kinds of connections you make/see between the two (being veg*n + being queer).
Hi, nice topic!... queer and vegan here... I'm male-to-female transgender.
I don't meet too many queer vegans in general... I'm kinda surprised some people think they're connected? I think I'm the only trans vegan I know! (Or have ever met.) Though I'm sure there's plenty. Though I can probably count on one hand the number of gay men I've ever met who are even vegetarian!
Yeah "different" isn't the same as "queer". Like... not as often (maybe?) people get beaten up for just being different, or have institutional discrimination. But, on the other hand, it's really great for people to have solidarity enough to identify as queer even when they're not LGBTI*.
And I like what you said rhetcompgirl about heteronormativity... but it's complex. Like, if someone identifies me as female, like sometimes I identify myself as, then since I'm male-attracted I'm "heterosexual" but I don't think of myself as "straight" at all. There are trans people who do, though, and in some ways are just as heteronormative (sometimes even more) than straight non-trans people. Not just in the hetero sense but in the normative sense. So "heteronormative" might be kind of limited? On the other hand, such folks generally don't identify as queer either, so maybe that's true.
Anyway, a big hello and much love to all queer vegans. And all queer people! And all vegans! And anyone else! :-)
:)Welcome, trisa! :)
Yes, welcome, Trisa. My BF is FTM, so there are other trans vegans around. We've received some flak from other queers we know for basically enjoying het privilege because, for all intents and purposes, we perform (to the unknowing outsider) het identity--man+woman=het. However, both of us still maintain our queer identities and are "out" as such at work and in our families. He resists a straight man identity not only because he spent the bulk of his life as girl/woman and has a deep understanding of how some straight men abuse their privilege, but also because in a large part his cultural identity rests in the queer community. You're right though--most of the trans men and women I know don't identify as queer and many of them never found solace or solidarity in the gay or queer communities.
Thanks asenath and rhetcompgirl!
And that's *competely* the way I feel about it, how your bf does, rhetcompgirl... you said it much better than I could. Before living like I am now, I lived as a gay man, and always identified as queer. I actually went through a period of trying to get into the "straight world" to some extent but it just doesn't work for me. (I never found solace among straight people before... and don't even really know how?) So even though I'm mostly with "straight" men these days (despite being non-op), I really have no desire at all to identify as straight. And I'm out to everyone too... that ethic of being open and honest sort of sticks with ya!
Anyway, it's nice to know there's other vegan queer and trans folks! I just submitted my secret recipe for perfect hummus, and also my garlic chile bread recipe. :-)
Welcome Trisa!
What does the 'I' stand for in LGBTI?
Rhetcompgirl, I can't access the article through that website, but I'll look for it in the library at Uni.
I've never heard it said 'LBGTI'. I always say/hear LBGTQ
Oh, the I stands for intersex.
http://www.isna.org/
There's all kinds of letters. :) Like LGBTIQP2L* would be lesbian, gay, bi, trans, intersex, queer, polyamorous, two-spirited, leather, whatever. It's really more just trying to include all sexual minorities broadly defined. Probably easier just to say queer, really, since some of those terms are specific to only some cultures and leave out other culturally-specific sexual minorities so... kind of endless! But "queer" culturally specific too. Ack!
Oh I know something kind of queer and vegan. Or at least sex-positive and vegan. For people who always practice safe sex like everyone should, and for people where that includes condoms, here's info about vegan condoms:
http://www.vegancondoms.com/
and also O'My and Hydra Smooth are vegan lubes
http://www.goodvibes.com/Item--i-2-2-FL-0202
http://www.goodvibes.com/item--i-2-2-FL-0203
but the best is Sensua Organics which is both vegan and 100% certified organic lube... Good Vibes is supposed to sell it but I couldn't find it at their online store?
Anyway, vegan safer sex is the best!
rhetcompgirl and Trisa -
Thanks for the links - they were really informative and incredibly interesting! I'm working on staff training (for my Resident Assistants) and I'm going to use some of this info :)
Welcome Trisa - it's good to have you here!
Vegan and queer in Boston! Glad to see you all. I think the two are related in the sense that, in my experience anyway, you only have to part once with your expectation (however vaguely realized) to fit into society and make everyone happy. Then, you're equipped--if in another aspect of your life you find yourself in the "margins" of society, you already know how to cope. Well, "cope" seems like a misnomer--I like it here in the margins!--but I guess I mean that on those days when the world would have you feel like a complete pariah, you already know how to stand up for yourself and feel comfortable with yourself.
vegan safer sex with another vegan (or two or three !!!)
:D :D :D :D :D
This is a fun site too. I found it while browsing Herbivore Mag's blog.
http://www.veganerotica.com This should help to defy the image of the no fun, no pleasure, "how do you live without cheese?" image that has been thrust upon so many of us!
and vegan safer sex with another vegan (or two or three !!!) is even better!! :D
LOL! Yeah I guess all the nice vegan products go unappreciated otherwise! Plus carnivores don't smell and taste as good... Has anyone noticed that? It's true!
This is a fun site too. I found it while browsing Herbivore Mag's blog.
http://www.veganerotica.com This should help to defy the image of the no fun, no pleasure, "how do you live without cheese?" image that has been thrust upon so many of us!
Wow that's great!! Up above when I gave my alphabet soup LGBTI...., I included leatherfolk, but then after I thought about it.... oooops!!! So that site's great!
Now if I could just find some vegan faux-leopard-fur-lined pleather restraints I'd be in heaven!
This isn't exactly related to vegan queer, and maybe is more "vegan medical", but is something that comes up with some vegan transfolks I'd guess:
Vegan Medical Procedures
Here's a big one: Use of animal-derived vs. "synthetic" (mostly plant-derived) hormones.
I know about this from taking estrogen... I'm not sure where testosterone for FTM's comes from? There are several types of estrogens used by MTF's, and one of the most common (and until recently THE most common I think?) is Premarin.
Premarin stands for "pregnant mare's urine". They literally have a factory-farming style thing with horses, where they keep them caged and tied down in their cages for six months, on srange diets so they pee a lot, with "urine collection devices" attached to them. It's really cruel. Then they take the urine, which is filled with all kinds of estrogens and other hormones, process it, put it into pills, and give it to MTF transgender folks and menopausal and post-menopausal women as an estrogen source.
Thankfully, that's being discouraged more recently by some endocrinologists. The estrogen I've used for a couple years is derived from soy and yams, and is not only just as good, but actually better since there's not as much variability, and they know the chemical composition exactly. Whereas with premarin it depends on all kinds of other things. Most of the major LGBT centers are switching to "synthetic" (which includes plant-derived) estradiol nstead of premarin.
Here's more information:
http://www.premarin.org/
OK, so that's one thing. Then recently I've been thinking about getting some collagen injections. Probably not but who knows... it depends on some other things... anyway, whether or not I do, collagen is used a lot in various cosmetic procedures so isn't just a trans thing by any means.
So then I was looking at something else about nutrition (I've been on a nutrition science web surfing kick lately!) and notice that medical-grade collagen is most often made from COWS! And then they wonder why people sometimes have allergic reactions to it? The protein in our own bodies is 25% collagen, so it's not like it's an unusual substance (and it's chemically the same in all animals). So are the allergens must be coming from other stuff in cows?
Anyway, it also means that collagen injections aren't vegan, and any surgeries that use collagen sheets (which comes from pigs) aren't vegan, like for heavy burns.
Some people augment their lips (and other stuff) with liquid silicone injections, but that's mostly illegal, except if done by a doctor, and doctors don't do it except for lips (and few will do it there). But at least it's made from rocks and not cows!
But the general issue I'd never quite heard of or thought about before: What about "vegan medical care"? I mean, even if it's not cosmetic. What if you need really critical surgery with collagen like got very bad burns? Should there be some kind of option to choose vegan alternatives? I know that's the last thing on people's mind with something like that but still, it goes to show how many things rely on animal products. Not just food and clothing.
Are there places that list drugs that have animal sources vs. vegan sources? (Like premarin vs. veggie estradiol).
Maybe everyone knows about vegan medical care? If I sound clueless about this, it's because, even though I became vegetarian a long time ago, and then vegan later on, and am completely happy with it, it was almost all for health reasons, and because it made me feel better, and because I'm not into high resource consumption when I can avoid it (so environmental more than animal rights reasons). BUT the cruelty-free part was like a wonderful side-benefit, to know I'm not doing as much harm in the world.
Anyway, because of that I've been both less moralistic and puritan about it than some people expect of vegans, and ALSO more ignorant about that part of it. I'm just learning some things recently... like I don't know if I should really avoid leather? I guess I should... but as opposed to eating meat, wearing leather doesn't make me feel like crap, so maybe there's less incentive. But then maybe I shouldn't call myself vegan? Or maybe it just means I need to learn more. Well anyway... not to babble too much. I'm sort of thinking out loud.... My point is that maybe everyone already knows about the medical questions and, if so, what do people think about that?
Wow, I consider myself to be a pretty savvy vegan, but I've never even considered where my bf's testosterone comes from. This is something we should know. It's suspended in various vegetable oils, but where the actual T comes from is a mystery. From what I can gather from other medical related threads on vegweb I think most people agree that when it comes down to being sick or using something that comes from animals you should probably take care of yourself first--it sounds awful to even type it.
In case there are any other interested folks out there this is where my bf gets his T http://www.stroheckersrx.com/htf.html and here's the link about T http://www.ftmguide.org/ttypes.html I looked to see if I could tell where it comes from and the best I could find is that it's normally suspended in either cotton or sesame seed oil.
You pose some really good questions, Trisa. Keep us posted about your decisions and good luck.
Thanks. I've been trying to find out... all I can find out so far is that testosterone is usually synthesized from cholesterol (both naturally and artificially). That was figured out in 1935, which was when it got the name testosterone, and two chemists got the nobel prize for it. And I found this interesting fact: "In 1931.. Adolf Butenandt managed to derive 15 milligrams of androsterone, a nontesticular male hormone, from 15,000 liters of policemen's urine."
Around the middle of this page:
http://pipeline.corante.com/archives/current_events/
an organic chemist says "synthetic testosterone is made from phytosterol percursors, typically derived from wild yams or soy" so that sounds good! :) And yet that's also from a highly opinionated person who's trying to make a point about something so... but it's the only precise thing I've found yet.
One of the problems with finding out about how they make it is that in 1990 the US congress passed the Anabolic Steroid Control Act which made anabolic steroids scheduled illegal drugs. They defined an anabolic steroid as any substance chemically or pharmacologically related to testosterone, with the exception of estrogens, progestins, and corticosteroids (hydrocortisone, etc.) A bunch of companies stopped making it after that. Then in 2005 they amended the act again to make possession of testosterone without a prescription a crime, and list it as schedule III (which includes things like special K and vicodin). So probably that's why a lot of places are reluctant to say how to make it? I don't know.
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