Is this justifiable?
So I was reading some post on a Facebook group by a guy called Richie:
Unless there's a Veggie who only disagrees with EATING meat, how can you guys justify not being strictly vegan? i.e.;
- Not owning or using books bound with gum,
- not using medicine/cosmetics developed using animals (pretty much all of them),
- not having operations (huge amounts of animal testing here),
- avoiding hair gel/swimming caps/playing cards/photos/matches/jelly etc (gelatin)
- Not using cars (leather/gelatin/glue for some fixtures) or any vehicle for that matter
etc etc etc etc
Point is, as contrite as it might sound, vegetarianism is a fad/fashion and an indulgence of the rich. People from societies who are fortunate that they can afford and choose any diet they want do it, often loudly, as if it gives them moral superiority. It is particularly fashionable amongst media hungry socialites you'll notice.
In my view only STRICT vegans can question meat-eaters with any authority, part time veggies act in contradiction of their own espoused morals.
So, question for you veggies, why aren't you a militant vegan? Is it just so you can feel superior to others through an effortless lifestyle choice or can you actually justify it?
I wrote a lengthy reply, (that I decided to post only on my LJ simply because I felt it would be construed as preaching) in which I feel I gave a good account of my decision to be vegetarian but not vegan.
What do you all think? Is there a grain of truth in this idea, or should we, as the excellent article by Bruce Freidrich says, aim for successful advocacy over personal purity?
Sounds like this person is a LITTLE misinformed and being a little agressive and judgemental.
What does superiority and fashion has to do with anything? :P
Also there's very few choices as far as ER operations in which some people don't have a choice but to have certain types of surgery and it isn't anyone's faults that science do animal testing. As far as we go we are doing our best to eat a diet so we not to be in critical health positions which meats contribues and meateating endorses.
I hope he doesn't come here! >:( ::)
This person just sounds like an argumentative, hateful a$$. Every little thing that a person does to better the world counts. Not having operations is just ridiculous, particularly when talking about the animal testing aspect. I had a n emergency c- section in February. I KNOW for a fact that nobody tested on any animal immediately prior to my surgery, nor was any animal harmed to specifically research my particular situation. Also, my child's safety was, and is, far more important to me than anything else. As for medicines: if there is a version of a medicine developed without animal testing, well, then I think you should go for that. But, if not, I think it's more important to take care of yourself. You can do way more for animals, people, the environment if you're healthy than you can if you're sick or, you know, dead.
Also, I would not consider any amout of vegetarianism "effortless".
Honestly, I don't think there are too many vegetarians of any dietary classification that question meat-eaters.
For some reason he's saying it like we are responsible for that. It's not up to us to stop using them it's up to those people who use animals to do that stuff. They can find man - made substitutions.
We are only responsible for ourselves here of what we do.
And also tell him if it's a fad or a fashion how can you justify then that some vegetarians or vegans are like that for 20 or 30 something years?
I don't get why he says "media hungry socialites" are going veg. Last I heard, Paris hilton was a spokesperson for Burger King and Nicole Ritchie is famous for eating only like Mcdonalds french fries. They are pretty much the only famous ones.. ? Also, indugence of the rich? I can easily spend $10 a week on food for myself and not think twice. I don't see dairy costing much more. That's cheaper than food stamps. It's the SAD that's indulgent and wasteful. Sure, some people buy a lot of frozen high priced premade veg food, but that stuff seems to be geared toward dieters not vegetarians.
Yet another omni with guilt, attacking the people who have "made" him feel guilty. Or maybe he met a proselytizing veg*n who didn't have his/her sh*t together. At any rate, attacks like this are realllllly tiring. :(
He's conflicted.
Weren't we all there at some point?
Ahhh yes, "Your diet makes me feel judged because my own conscience is hurting, but YOU'RE the problem."
Somebody should send this guy to Home Depot to get some stuff to build a life...
(Oh no, wait, wood is made from fibre!! Too healthy!! ;D ;D)
BTW, "Richie", the word is "trite". Contrite means repentant. Which he obviously is not.
He also appears to assume that every one of us is veg*n solely for someone else to notice. Never mind that there are definite health benefits to the diet/lifestyle. or the environmental impact.
Why do people think they get a vote as to what goes in my body?
What a pr*ck.
He also appears to assume that every one of us is veg*n solely for someone else to notice. Never mind that there are definite health benefits to the diet/lifestyle. or the environmental impact.
Why do people think they get a vote as to what goes in my body?
What a pr*ck.
That was what annoyed me so much. On the one hand, he's saying that being veg*n is a fad of the rich, a lifestyle choice or a fashion accessory, and yet on the other hand he's saying that its only valid form is totally strict and militant. What a terrible argument :)
Leaving veg*nism aside for one moment, according to Richie, you can't question anyone's behavior unless your own is completely pure and flawless?! By that logic, telling someone to stop using cocaine is hypocritical if you happen to drink coffee and take aspirin. As a society, we are all hypocrites for having a criminal justice system and sending murderers to jail when many of us drive over the speed limit and download music illegally.
Back to veg*nism, how many veg*ns actually make a point of confronting meat eaters directly, at least on a personal basis, anyways? I never have, and have yet to meet someone who has. Just because someone begins to feel defensive doesn't mean they are being confronted. FYI, someone saying "I don't eat meat" doesn't constitute confrontation.
Just because you are not willing to give up everything for a lifestyle/belief system doesn't mean you are not justified in holding that belief system. Maybe if I went hunting on my weekends for fun, he'd have an argument against me, but NOT because I own books and a car. Grrr.
"Point is, as contrite as it might sound, vegetarianism is a fad/fashion and an indulgence of the rich. People from societies who are fortunate that they can afford and choose any diet they want do it, often loudly, as if it gives them moral superiority"
Veg*nism is not a "diet of the rich",whatever!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If only rich popl were vegans, then why am i one!?!?! The most expesive thing i prollly buy is soymilk. (which is 50 american cents more expensive than normal milk)
And we do not "loudly profesize our diet style as if it gives uo moral superioty" We just stand up for what WE believe. It is a free country.....
Lots pf people stand up for whta they believe, and they are admired; but how come when it comes to veg*nism they arent admired?? ugh.
I guess no one ever mentioned to him that the only real vegans are the dead vegans. Because in today's society you cannot get away from animal products, testing or exploitation. If we could all go live in a vegan commune, where we grew our own cotton by hand to make our own clothes and our own veggies and our own mining of ore to make tools.... It snowballs out of control. Sure it could be possible to try, but first one would need to find people with all the skills needed to live self sufficiently. And then what to do when someone gets sick or needs an appendix removed. Do they just die because somewhere exploitation or animal products will get involved?
This guy just sounds like he is trolling. And its always best to just not feed the trolls, if they dont get the attention they seek they return to their bridges.
I think he sounds like a troll, too. Obviously, he's missed the whole point of vegan - which (for me at least) is living with an awareness of from where my products come. I buy as ethically and consciously as possible. I avoid the big things - factory farms - be it meat, eggs, or dairy - leather, cosmetics which test on animals or have animal products in them.
Now, obviously, I realize the wheat and grain I eat killed some bunnies and/or field mice. I realize there are a myriad of small quanities of animal products in the car I drive, my home, etc.
But, I'm not a vegan so that I can isolate myself from the world by living in the middle of nowhere and using only things I grow/make. I'm vegan so that I can make conscious, ethical choices in this world and, through that, perhaps influence others and the market.
Everybody lives their lives differently. Not anyone does the exact same thing or should be judged by the way they live their life. Where did he get this information anyways??? Dick Cheney's Grandma????
Never has anyone's first name been more fitting.