Israeli/Palestinian Conflict in Gaza
Posted by nmpixie on Jan 04, 2009 · Member since Jan 2008 · 1243 posts
Send an email to your congresspeople to let them know you don't agree with the starving of half a nation.https://secure2.convio.net/pep/site/Advocacy?cmd=display&page=UserAction...
This whole situation is sad. I fail to understand how a population (both Israeli and Palestinian) is willing to put their children's lives at risk for a piece of land. Really? You are willing to let your children die out of ignorance and a piece of freaking land? Nothing would force me to put my children's lives at risk (if I had any). Anyways, I'll restrain from ranting, but thanks for the link to the petition!
I don't agree with the fact that people are starving and innocent people are dying, but I also disagree that it is entirely Israel's fault. The petition blames Israel, and therefore, I will not sign it. Both parties are to blame, this has been going on for a long time, and it is unfortunate overall, as Foofie said. It's not about the people of Gaza, per se, it's about the Hamas-- the militants-- and I feel for the innocent Palestinians that are caught in the middle of this war over land. I will shut up now because this is probably not the popular thought on this topic.
However, I appreciate your activism and respect your stance on this issue.
I'm not sure that e-petitions have any weight with the administrators of any government. However, as has been said, it's always the innocent who suffer. Particularly in that particular area of this planet. "Peace, peace"--and there is no peace.
It's been going on ever since Abraham told Lot, "You go this way and I'll go that way because I don't want to fight over the wells." And yet...they continued to bicker. Sigh.
Now they do it with bombs, and children and the helpless die.
I agree with Yabbit that eforms probably don't do much. I was just hoping to bring some attention to the situation. In fact, I wish there really was something I could do, but what??? Protests stopped working after Vietnam, it seems. I boycott Israeli goods, but thats just face cream and tacky jewelry. It's very frustrating.
Meggs- Hamas was elected, they are just as much a government as ours(and the democratic process was probably similar, with the cheating and such, ha!) I may or may not agree with them, but I don't think a country should use violence toward another just because they don't agree with their government.
Yes, I understand, nmp, and this is going to sound so juvenile, but Hamas started the most recent attacks, no? I believe there was a cease-fire prior to the December 24th attacks/bombings? It is frustrating, also, that Hamas and Fatah are not united as a country for the Palestinians.
I don't understand why people are blaming the Israeli's for this whole thing-- is it because they are "winning" (no one is really "winning" here, as people are dying and I don't see a point in that whatever)? Is it because they appear to be "stronger"? They were bombed, they fought back. This has been going on for a long time, on and off.
We, as the United States, have killed many Iraqis... pretty much because we don't agree with their government, no? I mean, we've called it all sorts of other things; "weapons of mass destruction", said it was Saddam Hussein, blah blah blah, but here we are years later waiting for them to set up a Democratic government before we leave. And they weren't even the ones that attacked us on 9/11-- what are we doing there?!
Sorry for the tangent. I'd also like to say that I will be the first to admit that I do not know everything or even a lot about this subject and have only recently been following it the past few months. I'd like to know, in a nice and calm manner, why it is that people tend to blame Israel? As I said before, and will continue to say and maintain, I respect any/everyone's position on this issue and in no way mean to offend. Also, if I say something that is incorrect, please forgive my mistake-- like I said, I do not pretend to know everything.
I lived through the years of protest against Viet Nam, and I wouldn't say that "protests stopped working." I would say people stopped actively protesting. I watched people become more and more passive and self-absorbed as the decades passed. They simply weren't interested in it anymore. The ones who organised demonstrations in the 60's and 70's grew older and joined the establishment and the later generations simply didn't think of it, perhaps due to greater prosperity and the culture of entitlement. Certainly in the 80's my classmates at uni couldn't have been bothered.
There are still protests going on and debates and such. Both sides. FB friends are attending lectures on the topic and joining groups that are promoting each side, but as you said, Yabbit, it's a more passive approach.
Occasionally in Chicago there will be protests and marches but it is rare... and is there even an impact?
eta: I think we need to protest/start a war in Illinois... corruption, corruption, corruption... ;)
This whole situation is sad. I fail to understand how a population (both Israeli and Palestinian) is willing to put their children's lives at risk for a piece of land. Really? You are willing to let your children die out of ignorance and a piece of freaking land? Nothing would force me to put my children's lives at risk (if I had any). Anyways, I'll restrain from ranting, but thanks for the link to the petition!
A little off topic, but...
FOOFIE! You're an Econ major, too! 8-)
You got it ;)b
Listening to the BBC today they interviewed an Israeli man living in Sderot, which has born the brunt of Hamas' attacks. The reporter asked if the man would ever consider moving his family. His response, "No, this is my home." WTF! What is your malfunction?! You would rather put your family at risk than move somewhere else?! Last I checked people have been emigrating, moving to new locations for the entirety of history. If these people can't look at each other and come to a compromise for the sake of at the very least for the future of their children then something is absolutely and undeniably wrong with that region. I feel bad for the people who want to leave, but lack the means to. I wish the United States would invest money to help relocate the people who want to get out of the region. I'm tired of hearing about innocent people dieing because some ignorant fanatic thinks they have more of a right to a strip of land more so than someone else.
I lived through the years of protest against Viet Nam, and I wouldn't say that "protests stopped working." I would say people stopped actively protesting. I watched people become more and more passive and self-absorbed as the decades passed. They simply weren't interested in it anymore. The ones who organised demonstrations in the 60's and 70's grew older and joined the establishment and the later generations simply didn't think of it, perhaps due to greater prosperity and the culture of entitlement. Certainly in the 80's my classmates at uni couldn't have been bothered.
Off topic, but I think this is the main reason why Bush wasn't impeached. People talked about how he committed war crimes with torturing detainees, but there was no real public outrage, no massive, regular protests. And about the privacy infringes and the ever diminishing "rights" in the name of "freedom". It blows my mind that all of things happened and an entire nation (myself included) let it.
Yes, I understand, nmp, and this is going to sound so juvenile, but Hamas started the most recent attacks, no? I believe there was a cease-fire prior to the December 24th attacks/bombings? It is frustrating, also, that Hamas and Fatah are not united as a country for the Palestinians.
I don't understand why people are blaming the Israeli's for this whole thing-- is it because they are "winning" (no one is really "winning" here, as people are dying and I don't see a point in that whatever)? Is it because they appear to be "stronger"? They were bombed, they fought back. This has been going on for a long time, on and off.
We, as the United States, have killed many Iraqis... pretty much because we don't agree with their government, no? I mean, we've called it all sorts of other things; "weapons of mass destruction", said it was Saddam Hussein, blah blah blah, but here we are years later waiting for them to set up a Democratic government before we leave. And they weren't even the ones that attacked us on 9/11-- what are we doing there?!
Sorry for the tangent. I'd also like to say that I will be the first to admit that I do not know everything or even a lot about this subject and have only recently been following it the past few months. I'd like to know, in a nice and calm manner, why it is that people tend to blame Israel? As I said before, and will continue to say and maintain, I respect any/everyone's position on this issue and in no way mean to offend. Also, if I say something that is incorrect, please forgive my mistake-- like I said, I do not pretend to know everything.
I suppose Hamas started it, but a couple dudes sending rockets in response to being cut off from the outside world--no electricity, medicine, or foreign aid, and in preparation for these attacks...I can't say I wouldn't do it myself, given cultural conditions. It doesn't seem the same as going house to house in a foreign country to kill or arrest government party members. Most members of the UN also see this as an outrage.
I agree with you about the war in Iraq. That's why I think it is awful.
I also do not know everything on the subject, but it is, hmmm, how do I out it? Something that I am very interested in? Upset about? And have been for years. Divestment seems to be one thing to work towards, but it is a slow process.
First off, I think any war is a horrible situation & I really feel bad for any innocent bystander who's is hurt or killed. It's all so unnecessary. I'm not a very eloquent speaker/writer, but wanted to chime in with my feelings on this topic.
I mostly side with Meggs, but place most of the blame on whoever it is providing Hamas with weapons. I think Israel overreacted, but they were scared because somehow, someone in Palestine found a rocket that could reach further than their previous ones when no one was supposed to sending them any new weapons.
Foofie, giving Palestine the Gaza Strip in exchange for a seize fire was a compromise, wasn't it?
I almost feel like this war is exactly what Hamas wanted. They kept pestering Israel until they got fed up. Now they can get the rest of the world to feel sorry for them & help them out.
place most of the blame on whoever it is providing Hamas with weapons. I think Israel overreacted, but they were scared because somehow, someone in Palestine found a rocket that could reach further than their previous ones when no one was supposed to sending them any new weapons.
I almost feel like this war is exactly what Hamas wanted. They kept pestering Israel until they got fed up. Now they can get the rest of the world to feel sorry for them & help them out.
Good points.
See, that's the thing, though, I don't feel sorry for them. I feel for the innocent people that are dying, but I feel bad for the innocent people that are dying everywhere, not just there. I know that it's not much, but the Israelis DID drop leaflets prior to bombing warning civilians that this was going to happen if the Hamas continued their attacks. Now, do I think that people should have to leave their homes because of all this? No. But ideally, this should not have occurred (been occurring) in the first place. It was a nice extra kick in the teeth to attack during Hanukkah.
ETA:
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/06/israel.gaza/index.html
I compulsively check/read CNN.com and came across this latest (at the time) article. I appreciated these points:
*Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on Monday told French President Nicolas Sarkozy that Israel wanted a "full solution" to the conflict, not just a cease-fire that allowed Hamas to fortify itself, Olmert spokesman Mark Regev said.
*"Before the last cease-fire with Hamas began, Hamas had missiles with a range of 20 kilometers," Regev said Tuesday. "By the end of the cease-fire, the range of the missiles grew to 40 kilometers. Israel does not want the next cease-fire to allow them to get missiles with a range of 60 kilometers."
*The Israeli military said 80 trucks with humanitarian aid would be allowed to pass into Gaza on Tuesday at the Kerem Shalom crossing.
Unfortunately, a bunch of people are still being killed.
http://www.democracynow.org/
I guess we just trust different news programs. Its all propaganda, one way or another, but I do really think Amy Goodman does her homework. I don't think we'll ever agree, but it's nice to have a discussion. Sigh. I really recommed listening to the whole broadcast.
Although, I will say that the Red Cross and the UN tend to agree that this is a humanitarian crisis. Regardless of who is at fault.
Foofie, giving Palestine the Gaza Strip in exchange for a seize fire was a compromise, wasn't it?
The Gaza Strip is an overcrowded refugee camp. There should not be compromises. The entire conflict has been mired with failed compromises that did not bring peace. The Israelis are correct, another ceasefire, another compromise will accomplish little. Talks need to center around acceptance and a one state solution. Until Israelis and Palestinians can live on the same streets in the same cities these conflicts will continue for as many generations as they have already gone on for. Both sides are unfortunately too ignorant and would rather continue to fight with one another until they get all they want. This is all probably a bit too naive, but oh well.
Actually I think it's pretty spot-on, Foofie.
Maybe Tzipi Livni will be able to work things out. Let's have hope.
Maybe Tzipi Livni will be able to work things out. Let's have hope.
For more on her, please see here: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3648381,00.html
I'm not really going to go into an opinion on the topic, but I just needed to add that one of my former co-workers at the hfs moved to Israel last week :o :-\ . He's been planning for months to move there, gain Israeli citizenship, then study at the University in Tel Aviv. I really don't know about what all his plans entail, but I'm pretty sure joining the Israeli army was a requirement. :'(
The main problem is the US scares everyone with the news.
Can not really comment on this.
This kind of thing happens all the time.
Just go back to the 90's when Clinton was in office and Rowanda tried to kill off most its nation.
You can not really blame the president it is not really his job to police the world.
I'm not really going to go into an opinion on the topic, but I just needed to add that one of my former co-workers at the hfs moved to Israel last week :o :-\ . He's been planning for months to move there, gain Israeli citizenship, then study at the University in Tel Aviv. I really don't know about what all his plans entail, but I'm pretty sure joining the Israeli army was a requirement. :'(
I have a friend who travels to Israel often. She has been there for over a month now and is coming home on Sunday. Sadly, this sort of thing is "normal" to them at this point; she is not really fazed by all of this. I believe that yes, the army is a requirement, for both men and women. It may be optional for women, but I know my friend's friend is a pretty high-ranking officer in the army. It's a beautiful country; it's too bad that all of this stuff is going on.
The main problem is the US scares everyone with the news.
Can not really comment on this.
This kind of thing happens all the time.
Just go back to the 90's when Clinton was in office and Rowanda tried to kill off most its nation.
You can not really blame the president it is not really his job to police the world.
I don't think the US "scares" everyone with the news, I do think the US skews the news. I'm not really sure who is blaming the president here, and I am fully aware it's not his job to police the world-- which is further proof that we should, in fact, not be in Iraq. However, the president is not the be all and end all for our country, regarding decision-making, either.
Pages