Romans 14:2-3
Posted by beccalynn77 on Sep 15, 2007 · Member since Mar 2007 · 238 posts
People always tell me to look up t oa certain verse in Genesis( i cant remember the exact passage) and they say that i shouldl eat meat cuz the Bible says so.. which is not what the Bible says... but a friend pf mine found me the perfect verse to retaliate with... Romans 14 : 2-3 "2For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
3Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him."
mm found it! genesis 9:3 !! hehe
I might totally be making this up, but doesn't Revelation say that the antichrist will preach abstinence from meat? Whether it's true or not, I'm pretty sure I've been told that before.
I get the gist of it, but could someone please explain the first quote minus the "eths"?
I'm interested but it sounds to me like it's saying the herbivore is weak? Help me out here, please.
???
They're talking about weakness of faith, not body. Daniel went totally veg when he was in Babylon to avoid non-kosher food and he was healthier than the others.
But here Paul is talking about people who didn't eat meat either because of their fear of non-kosher food (still following Jewish custom) OR from the desire to avoid food (meat) from animals that had been sacrificed as a part of pagan ritual. The rest of the passage (always read in context) talks about how "we know that an idol is nothing" but that some people have issues about them, so the best thing to do is just not eat meat if you're worried about it. AND if you're eating with someone who has those issues, don't force it on them.
This makes perfect sense even if it's just in terms of hospitality. I have a friend who is Recabite Presbyterian which means that wine is a no-no. After many years friendship, I can serve it at a meal he is a guest at, and as long as I don't offer him any, he's cool. But I wouldn't serve wine at a meal if he had a real problem with seeing it there, just as I wouldn't have wine or beer around an ex-alcoholic friend. I could think, "Well I'm not forcing them to drink it and I have the right to have it in my own house"--but it's unkind and unnecessary.
Paul's just saying, if you're the "strong" one (the one with no issues) it won't cost you anything to cut the person some slack if they DO have issues with whatever it is. Be kind and compassionate.
Which is always good advice.
I try really hard not to get bogged down in arguments. I usually give these types a pittying look and move along.
Here is my take: Judge not, lest you be judged by the same standard (biblical paraphrase). So it is care on BOTH sides...vegans and meaters.
Between us here, you all know that when you go vegan and stay that way, a kindness, a compassion, a care about the world and every living thing starts to creep into your consciousness and change who you are at the core. There is less anger, less willingness to argue, more calm in the vegan heart (yup, even Davedrum). It is not a religious experience, but it is a spiritual one. I don't need the bible or anything else to justify what has been a deepening awareness that is life affirming and fulfilling.
They're talking about weakness of faith, not body. Daniel went totally veg when he was in Babylon to avoid non-kosher food and he was healthier than the others.
But here Paul is talking about people who didn't eat meat either because of their fear of non-kosher food (still following Jewish custom) OR from the desire to avoid food (meat) from animals that had been sacrificed as a part of pagan ritual. The rest of the passage (always read in context) talks about how "we know that an idol is nothing" but that some people have issues about them, so the best thing to do is just not eat meat if you're worried about it. AND if you're eating with someone who has those issues, don't force it on them.
This makes perfect sense even if it's just in terms of hospitality. I have a friend who is Recabite Presbyterian which means that wine is a no-no. After many years friendship, I can serve it at a meal he is a guest at, and as long as I don't offer him any, he's cool. But I wouldn't serve wine at a meal if he had a real problem with seeing it there, just as I wouldn't have wine or beer around an ex-alcoholic friend. I could think, "Well I'm not forcing them to drink it and I have the right to have it in my own house"--but it's unkind and unnecessary.
Paul's just saying, if you're the "strong" one (the one with no issues) it won't cost you anything to cut the person some slack if they DO have issues with whatever it is. Be kind and compassionate.
Which is always good advice.
Thanks Yabbit!!! Makes much more sense in a little more context!!
Meggs, here it is in plainer English, from the passage in question. If you put it in context it makes more sense.
1Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. 2One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. 3The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. 4Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand.
5One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.
Emphasis mine. That's the point. You make up your own mind and stick to it, but you also cut people some slack if they have issues.
Wow, what a great passage. Does anyone know where the verse is that people keep insisting exists saying that animals were put here for us to eat?
I would just like to know for sure if the Bible seriously says that, or if it's a misinterpretation.
Jeanacorina, look in Genesis 9 or 10. It was after the flood that God told Noah he could eat all the "clean" animals--and animals started being afraid of man.
Also in Acts where Peter has his vision of all the animals and God tells him to "rise, kill and eat." Peter says no way, some of those animals aren't kosher (and besides they'd have to be ritually killed) and God says "What God has called clean, don't call unclean". But I think he was really talking about accepting non-Jews into Christianity which at that point was essentially a Jewish offshoot.
I might totally be making this up, but doesn't Revelation say that the antichrist will preach abstinence from meat? Whether it's true or not, I'm pretty sure I've been told that before.
You're thinking of 1 Timothy chapter 4:
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Paul argued for years with those who would insist that your standing before God depended in some degree on adherence to Mosaic law. Dietary laws were a big part of this. The main gist of Paul's argument is that the standing of a believer before God is based on what Christ accomplished and His righteousness being credited to us for faith by grace (Ephesians 2:8,9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.).
The Judaizers of Paul's time and the "works" oriented "Christians" of ours continually insist that you must work out your own salvation. They would dispose of Paul altogether if they could. Paul puts Christ at the center of everything. Those who opposed him placed themselves and their works there. Read Galatians if you want to see Paul really give it to the legalists.
good explanation Yabbitgirl-- my Buddies at Bible college would some times have a little fun at my expense with tis particular verse!
I always thought it was interesting that in order to enter coventat with God in the Old testament you had to be meat free...
This one dude, Samson (He is famous because his lover, Delilah, tricked him and betrayed him) was a vegetarian. His mother couldn't have a baby so she prayed and God said He would give her one and God told her to raise her son as a vegetarian so that he could be close to God. He was supposedly the strongest man in the Bible...he even crashed a temple to the ground and pulled a gate of the entrance to the city!!
I don't like Samson though, even though he was a vegetarian...he seemed like a foolhearty, carousing simpleton to me....But then I didn't really know him, did I? I like Yabbitgirls example better- Daniel is one of my all time favorite books!
The other day I found this passage in Proverbs that says "Its better to sit down to a table of vegetables with friends than it is to sit down to a plate with meat on it when there is hatred at the table..." I guess the point there is more about who you are eating with than what you are eating...
I think the best Biblical support for vegetarianism (in case you feel the need to engage one of those snots who want to tell you its evil in a little debate) is that the earth and its inhabitants were made vegetarian...there was no death until after mankind sinned (there for no meat) God did not explicitly say mankind could eat meat until after the great flood (generations after creation and first sin) ----but that was probally because there was no vegetation and Noah and his family would have died. But folks were living up into their 600s back in those days and God shortened mans years to 120 and fewer after the flood (at the same time they started eating meat)
Proverbs says that a wise man is good to his animals and protects its life. The Psalms says that a good Shepard is someone who would go as far as to die for his sheep. I don't think that factory farming is good stewardship...therefore I do not partake in it. :P
Also, when we are all in heaven, we are all going back to being vegetarian...the psalms say that the lion and lamb will lay down together...and so will the leopard and the goat....The book of Revalation says that there will be no death or sorrow in heaven---so that means no meat....just like God first made earth to be...
Thats my story and I'm sticking to it! ;)
Wow, what a great passage. Does anyone know where the verse is that people keep insisting exists saying that animals were put here for us to eat?
I would just like to know for sure if the Bible seriously says that, or if it's a misinterpretation.
I think the passage that they usually site is this one from the book of Acts : Acts 10:12-14 (New International Version)
"(a sheet descended from heaven) It contained all kinds of four-footed animals, as well as reptiles of the earth and birds of the air. Then a voice told him, "Get up, Peter. Kill and eat."
"Surely not, Lord!" Peter replied. "I have never eaten anything impure or unclean."
The point of this verse was not not not not about eating meat. The point of the verse was that God had forbidden the Jews from eating these varieties of animals. The Jews were very careful about avoiding them in order to stay "clean." God had also instructed the Jews not to get mixed up with gentiles---but now God wanted them to embrace the Gentiles. So God said (basically) "EVERYTHING that was unclean---is now clean, because I said so. You do not have to avoid it any more..." This verse does not go on to say that Peter got up and killed the animals and eat them (I assume he may have but that wasn't the POINT of the story so it doesn't say) The verse goes on to say that Peter went to the home of some Gentile and shared good news with them-- allowed them into his circle of friends.
Another verse they may be thinking of is the one where God instructed Noah to eat the animals...but you can see my explanation to that in my above commnet...
Sorry to post twice, guys..... ::)
Ive never had the problem of someone telling me that i need to eat meat for religious reasons............ but then again, I'm an atheist...idk, i suppose that this would be helpfull to Christians ...........Xring_of_fireX
Ummmm...yeah...kind of the point of this thread if you go back and read the first post.... ;)
I might totally be making this up, but doesn't Revelation say that the antichrist will preach abstinence from meat? Whether it's true or not, I'm pretty sure I've been told that before.
You're thinking of 1 Timothy chapter 4:
Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:
For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.
Paul argued for years with those who would insist that your standing before God depended in some degree to adherence to Mosaic law. Dietary laws were a big part of this. The main gist of Paul's argument is that the standing of a believer before God is based on what Christ accomplished and His righteousness being credited to us for faith by grace (Ephesians 2:8,9: For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.).
The Judaizers of Paul's time and the "works" oriented "Christians" of ours continually insist that you must work out your own salvation. They would dispose of Paul altogether if they could. Paul puts Christ at the center of everything. Those who opposed him placed themselves and their works there. Read Galatians if you want to see Paul really give it to the legalists.
Thanks Kbone, I had tried and failed to find this. That is indeed the passage I was thinking of.
This is such a good discussion. Thanks to everyone who clarified for me. I'm still not sure whether God really meant "eat meat" or "don't eat meat unless you're gonna die because I killed all the vegetation," but at least now I know where the verses are and what they say.
If anyone thinks of anything else, I'd really like to know more. I have a feeling this subject will come up one day with someone in my family.
Funny, none of my family are particularly religious. I don't know why they care so much suddenly. I feel like I am doing far more "right" by myself and by God and every other living thing by NOT eating meat. Any guilt I felt before is long gone now.
God actually did want us to eat meat.. I mean he kille dth lamb as a sacrific for Adam and Eve to have clothes after they sinned. But theproblem is that nowadays, people torture th animals, and make them have a terrible life before they are killed. If Bessie lived ona farm , happily roaming teh hills all her lifeuntil she got old and passed one.. i would beok with that. But factories? No sunlight/ What hppened to back when when ALL the animals were treated fairly?
God actually did want us to eat meat.. I mean he kille dth lamb as a sacrific for Adam and Eve to have clothes after they sinned.
In Genesis God gave Adam and Eve clothing made of animal skins, not necessarily lambskin. This signified the necessity of the shedding of blood to cover sin (for the wages of sin are death), it had nothing to do with eating meat. Note that Adam and Eve had first tried to cover their sin with aprons made of fig leaves (the works of their own hands) which were an inappropriate covering.
The sacrifice of the lamb has a more specific connotation. You see it in the Passover and then the ultimate lamb "without blemish or spot" the perfect Christ, our Passover, not born of the seed of Adam, not an heir to the corrupted sin nature.
The cry of "where is the lamb" echoes throughout the Old Testament, note Isaac says to Abraham his father in Genesis 22:7 "And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?"
Abraham's answer in the next verse foreshadows the coming of Christ- "And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together."
The question of the whereabouts of the lamb is ultimately answered by John the Baptist in John 1:29- "The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world"
Genesis 1:29: "And God said, "Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree with seed in its fruit; you shall have them for food."
No mention of meat.
But wasn't taht before we sinned? Because Gods original intentiojn ( according to Genesis 1:29) was for us to be vegetarians... but then Adam and eve sinned, which chnaged things around....
genesis 9 :3
" 3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. "
which is where I encounter problems with other people ( my dad being a missionary=/) because they can't seem to comprehend teh fact that people do not treat animals as tehy used to.. and that its not all innconet anymore.
But wasn't taht before we sinned? Because Gods original intentiojn ( according to Genesis 1:29) was for us to be vegetarians... but then Adam and eve sinned, which chnaged things around....
genesis 9 :3
" 3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. "
which is where I encounter problems with other people ( my dad being a missionary=/) because they can't seem to comprehend teh fact that people do not treat animals as tehy used to.. and that its not all innconet anymore.
Genesis 9:3 is after the Flood of Noah. To my knowledge, that is the first place where there is any mention of animals being sanctioned as food in the Bible. It also wasn't until after the flood that there was any mention of people getting drunk from drinking wine. Lots of speculation on mega changes in the earth caused by the flood.
As far as being able to frame an argument for or against eating meat based on the Bible you are not going to be able to establish a definitive rule one way or the other. There are passages that indicate it is alright to not eat meat and it can even be argued that in the case of Daniel his health benefited by his abstinence. However, it is also clear that in the New Testament all restrictions against the consumption of foods prohibited by the Mosaic Law have been lifted. It seems the choice is left to us.
When people try to browbeat you into eating something you don't want to eat my advice to you is to simply refuse to engage in argument with them. Make your own choice and expect people to respect it. If they refuse to I would make it clear to them that their opinions should be kept to themselves. It's ridiculous when people to try to twist scripture in order to get other people to acquiesce to their personal will.
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