Pet Food and Veg Ethics
Posted by mamaanna on Aug 30, 2009 · Member since Oct 2006 · 158 posts
I'm curious about those of you with dogs (and cats). How many people feed their pets vegan food? What has your experience been with it? And, if you choose to eat animal-free, but feed your own pets products containing meat, how do you deal with that from an ethical standpoint?
Curious to see what you guys have to say,
MA, proud mama to three dogs
I can not speak from personal experience about cats... i don't have any and have never tried a vegan diet on a cat.... i do suggest maybe looking into the vegecat supplement... the cats on the companies website seemed to be doing very well on it... just something to consider/ tryout... i know fufu is going through some hard financial times so that may not be feasible right now but maybe something to experiment with in the future :)
As to the idea of a vegan cat diet, with lots of supplements...I guess if that is your thing, then go for it. For me, I think the fact that you need to hyper supplement it, says that is not what is best for their bodies.
This.
Totally agree.
The vegecat/dog supplement is only if u make them food urself... it just makes sure they r getting everything... i haven't looked into vegan cat food that is store bought... i wonder if anyone has a vegan cat... i would love to know how it's working for them
My short answer - I don't force my ethical decisions on anyone, including my companion animals.
I think this isn't really applicable here. Yeah, don't force your decisions on other adults, but suppose you are raising your children vegan, for example. You'd be "forcing your decisions on them," technically, which basically translates into teaching them the values that you think are best for them. Like amy said, the pets aren't feeding themselves.
That said, it's totally clear that dogs thrive being vegan--no question. I've heard cats can get really bad kidney problems though. In which case it doesn't make sense to save an animal at the expense of another.
My short answer - I don't force my ethical decisions on anyone, including my companion animals.
I respect your answer and allow it without judgement or criticism.
My short answer is my dogs are in my care and they really don't have the capacity in my opinion to think on an ethical level. So my ethics matter, and just like I make most of their decisions for them, I include ethical and moral decisions. They need that from me. Ethically I do a lot of things for them, from the obvious to feeding and housing them, but also in things like spaying and neutering them, vacinnating them, not crating them, putting them on a leash for walks, and making them behave in certain ways, and eating a vegan diet.
good response tweety... very well said :)
My dogs are happy, healthy vegans! We feed them Nature's Recipe Vegetarian Formula. Gives em garlic breath - I love it!
That makes three of us for this particular food, although i will say i much prefer avoderm veg dog food (has lanolin in it but my dogs coats do look amazing and they seem to prefer it--including prefer it over meat.) Unfortunately I have been having to give them tuna fish in addition (not a choice I love, please see my other post about the subject and answer if you can)
My guys do really really great on veg dogfood and I'm once again toying with the idea of making my own dog food for them using "vegedog" supplements and stuff...I'm not a huge fan of the recipes from the website for vegdog....
Does anyone know of a good rawhide substitute? i tried the dried yams and they were NOT fans....I pretend I dont know that they family gives them real rawhide...Eww...
My animals currently live back home with my family. Our two dogs eat 'people-food' chicken and vegetables with kibble, and the cat eats home-made cat food with store-bought kibble. The dogs also sometimes get store-bought meat-based treats, or vegetarian (but not vegan) peanut-butter biscuits my stepmother makes for them.
Ethically, I would prefer it if the dogs ate a veg*n diet, but given that I'm not the one who currently buys/prepares their food, I accept that it's currently not my choice. If/when I take 'my' dog with me when I move out, he will likely eat a lot of the same things I do - he seems to be made of steel and able to live off literally anything, and he certainly seems to like his veggies, so I don't see that being much of a problem.
Any and all cats, being vastly superior to the likes of us humans, will probably get cast-offs from the butchers', free-range eggs, and as much vegan food as is healthy for an obligate carnivore. I MIGHT be persuaded to raise feeder mice for something like a snake, but that's one of those 'cross that bridge when I come to it' things, I guess.
Of course, the easiest ethical decision (other than not keeping animal company, but fork that) is to get a vegetarian animal... I've had a pet hen before, and I could see myself with a parrot, rabbit, guinea pig, rat, etc. from a shelter. Dogs may be man's best friend, and cats their supreme rulers, but that doesn't mean herbivores aren't plenty friendly, too.
I know this is an old tread, but I didn't want to start a new one with the same topic. I've been looking into diets for my next dog and the part that wants a healthy, long-lived dog is leaning towards a raw, mostly meat diet. The vegan part of me wants to do anything but that, but no part of me has seen any compelling evidence showing that a dog can not just live , but flourish on a vegan diet. The only vegan formula I would even consider is Natural Balance. I've thought about trying one for a time, then the other to see which the dog seems healthiest on, but the idea of experimenting with my future dog's health makes me uncomfortable. Any ideas?
I know this is an old tread, but I didn't want to start a new one with the same topic. I've been looking into diets for my next dog and the part that wants a healthy, long-lived dog is leaning towards a raw, mostly meat diet. The vegan part of me wants to do anything but that, but no part of me has seen any compelling evidence showing that a dog can not just live , but flourish on a vegan diet. The only vegan formula I would even consider is Natural Balance. I've thought about trying one for a time, then the other to see which the dog seems healthiest on, but the idea of experimenting with my future dog's health makes me uncomfortable. Any ideas?
Here is a good resource: http://www.vegandognutritionassociation.com/
The book link at the top is for a free, very informative book.
I know this is an old tread, but I didn't want to start a new one with the same topic. I've been looking into diets for my next dog and the part that wants a healthy, long-lived dog is leaning towards a raw, mostly meat diet. The vegan part of me wants to do anything but that, but no part of me has seen any compelling evidence showing that a dog can not just live , but flourish on a vegan diet. The only vegan formula I would even consider is Natural Balance. I've thought about trying one for a time, then the other to see which the dog seems healthiest on, but the idea of experimenting with my future dog's health makes me uncomfortable. Any ideas?
a dog can flourish on a vegan diet there is no doubting that (i posted this link earlier):
http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=34
i have 2 happy healthy dogs to prove it :)
I don't have any idea about kitten diet, I have dogs,and they are vegetarian. I buy food for them are veggie but the ingredients noted there does not seem to be pure veggie. Me too want to bake some thing different for my dog which should contain healthy diet for them. Staying with natural ingredients they also come healthy with fluffy look.
Are the meat items really unhealthy for them?
From the link i posted above:
"Feeding companion animals commercial pet foods may be jeopardizing their health. Supermarket pet foods are often composed of ground-up parts of animals that U.S. Department of Agriculture inspectors have deemed unfit for human consumption. The flesh of animals who fall into one of the categories of the four D’s—dead, dying, diseased, or disabled—is what often goes into pet food."
My short answer - I don't force my ethical decisions on anyone, including my companion animals.
I respect your answer and allow it without judgement or criticism.
My short answer is my dogs are in my care and they really don't have the capacity in my opinion to think on an ethical level. So my ethics matter, and just like I make most of their decisions for them, I include ethical and moral decisions. They need that from me. Ethically I do a lot of things for them, from the obvious to feeding and housing them, but also in things like spaying and neutering them, vacinnating them, not crating them, putting them on a leash for walks, and making them behave in certain ways, and eating a vegan diet.
Perfect response, Tweety, and this is basically what my vet told me when we discussed that I was considering having my dog eat a vegan diet. She said that I was raising him and it was up to me to make the ethical decisions, but within my ethical decisions I had to weigh what was best for him, as a dog. My dog is happy as long as there's something in his tummy, so I think it's a grand opportunity to make an impact on the world and not support the meat industry.
I know this is an old tread, but I didn't want to start a new one with the same topic. I've been looking into diets for my next dog and the part that wants a healthy, long-lived dog is leaning towards a raw, mostly meat diet. The vegan part of me wants to do anything but that, but no part of me has seen any compelling evidence showing that a dog can not just live , but flourish on a vegan diet. The only vegan formula I would even consider is Natural Balance. I've thought about trying one for a time, then the other to see which the dog seems healthiest on, but the idea of experimenting with my future dog's health makes me uncomfortable. Any ideas?
Here is a good resource: http://www.vegandognutritionassociation.com/
The book link at the top is for a free, very informative book.
Thanks so much, AC! This is exactly what I've been searching for!
I don't want to step on any toes here, but does anyone know of any studies done in this area? I don't particularly anecdotal evidence, and the only studies I've seen on vegan diets haven't been longterm studies. My main concern is the amount of carbohydrates in vegan diets, both commercial and some homemade recipes. Longterm studies of other diets have shown too many carbohydrates (specifically grains) in a dog's diet to be detrimental.
I'm not concerned about dogs eating complex carbohydrates. High fat and high protein, especially high protein, does cause problems in dogs. It is very hard on their kidneys and liver. That is why they should never eat cat food. (BTW, protein can be potentially harmful to most animals. Carnivores. such as cats, are able to digest and excrete excess nitrogen without harm to their organs.)
I agree that cats are true carnivores. They cannot convert plants proteins into essentail amino acids (i.e. Tarine). Dogs can but not as effeciently as humans.
As for other pets, I have 3 chickens that freerange in my backyard. They are also omnivores, but can be raised as herbivores. In order to accomplish this, they would have to be confined. I believe this is more cruel than letting them eat a few worms, insects and spiders. They are also my pest control in the backyard and garden. It is better than using harmful chemicals. Like other omnivores, they need to be limited on the amount of protein and fat in their diet. Their ration is primarily ration is a homemade seed and grain mixture. I also give them a large helping of greens a day and access to oyster shells. They seem to be thriving on this more than the layer mash they use to eat.
In case anyone is interested, I just ran across this entry on the vegan.com blog about a new dog food from Humane Society of the United States:
http://www.vegan.com/blog/2010/02/08/humane-choice-vegan-dog-food/
My dogs are happy, healthy vegans! We feed them Nature's Recipe Vegetarian Formula. Gives em garlic breath - I love it!
That makes three of us for this particular food, although i will say i much prefer avoderm veg dog food (has lanolin in it but my dogs coats do look amazing and they seem to prefer it--including prefer it over meat.) Unfortunately I have been having to give them tuna fish in addition (not a choice I love, please see my other post about the subject and answer if you can)
My guys do really really great on veg dogfood and I'm once again toying with the idea of making my own dog food for them using "vegedog" supplements and stuff...I'm not a huge fan of the recipes from the website for vegdog....
Does anyone know of a good rawhide substitute? i tried the dried yams and they were NOT fans....I pretend I dont know that they family gives them real rawhide...Eww...
Four!! Haha! It's only $40 at Petsmart for a giant bag of it. My pomimo gets garlic breath but it's okay, she cleans her teeth on her own with her dental stick Kong...anyhow to anyone who wanted to know, cats can be vegan too. They have a whole page on it in my fave. cookbook. Here is what they said:
"Cats are more difficult. However, it is possible to feed them vegan meals. They are, by nature, true carnivores, whereas dogs are omnivores. When feeding a cat vegan, to avoid serious consequences, the diet must be supplemented with a Taurine containing product or Veggie-Cat, a marketed product made by Harbingers of a New Age. A favorite meal of cats includes mashed tofu with nutritional yeast and kelp, and 'Vegecat' supplementation. Other meal additions include: well-cooked chick peas, seaweeds of all kind, avocado, bread, ground seitan and oatmeal. Animals become much less agressive, much the same as humans, when eating a vegan diet. Look forward to your pet becoming gentler, healthier, cleaner, and even more lovable."
Yeah, I just typed that whole thing out.
Here is a book you can read if you want to make your cat vegan:
Vegetarian Dogs and Cats, Harbingers of a New Age, author, Peden ISBN 0-941319-02-4
As for other pets, I have 3 chickens that freerange in my backyard. They are also omnivores, but can be raised as herbivores. In order to accomplish this, they would have to be confined. I believe this is more cruel than letting them eat a few worms, insects and spiders. They are also my pest control in the backyard and garden. It is better than using harmful chemicals. Like other omnivores, they need to be limited on the amount of protein and fat in their diet. Their ration is primarily ration is a homemade seed and grain mixture. I also give them a large helping of greens a day and access to oyster shells. They seem to be thriving on this more than the layer mash they use to eat.
Too awesome! I raised chicken growing up (they're still at my parents' house in the country), and I am in love with them. I even have a chicken tattoo to always carry them with me. I loved them so much, and they all have first and middle names. As soon as I don't live in an apartment in the middle of the city, I'm going to adopt more hennies. People always thought that we were so weird having chickens and not eating them, and even as a 13 year old I asked "would you eat your dog?" tee hee. This was even before I was vegan! I always love to see your picture. it just makes my day! :)>>>
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