Dogs and tummy issues
We acquired a new (2-1/2 y/o) beastie a few months ago (Lab/Setter mix). We have a 10 y/o Lab who is quite laid-back and very easy to care for.
Normally I feed kibble once a day (brand varies, but I'm as picky about my dogs food as I am about my own, California Naturals, usually) and I'll make a meal for the other (usually something out of Dr. Pitcairn's Natural Health book, but sometimes just a grain, a meat, and a vegetable, with supplements). In the summer I add garlic and brewers yeast (fleas). Raika (the 10y/o) has never had a problem with this system, although she's not a big fan of garlic and salmon upsets her tummy.
The new one, (Zidi) is a different story. She has some sort of gastric distress 3 days out of 7. By distress I mean someone better get out of bed at 3 AM and let her out or they'll be hell to pay. Heavy diarrhea, stinky farts, sometimes vomiting; you can hear the gurgling in her tummy after dinner and know that tonight will be a long night for everyone. At first I thought she was getting used to the new food and we should just give it time (been 3 months).
About 5 weeks ago, I'd had enough and just put her on the kibble alone. It got better (I think, I may just be getting used to it), but not totally and not quickly. She doesn't have worms. It seems that anything can set her off, too. Will was tossing corn chips to the dogs (and one of the cats) the other day and it happened again. Now we have a rule that Zidi can have nothing except the kibble, until I can find the source of this although I don't see how three corn chips can do that to a dog that big. And the weird thing is on the 4 days that there isn't a problem, there really is NO problem (stool that can be picked up out of people's yards on walks).
I don't know what to do. I had a cat once who had tummy problems, but since Zidi is 70 lbs, the rules are a bit different. If it were me or my husband I'd look to diet as the cause, but I can't find it here. Anybody with a similar experience? I hate sending her out of the room while Raika dines on meat and "real" food, but that's where we are.
I say keep her on the kibble and after about a week feed her some other food one at a time though. She could just have a virus maybe.
Perhaps use the "bland diet" for a few days?
When my little one gets sick (vomiting, diarrhea) we do this and she's ok for quite some time.
Typically, we do no dog food, and substitute it with rice and broth. My vet also says they can have baked plain chicken too, with the rice mixture.
We've had many sick days this year, so I know how you feel.
Good luck, Nutdragon!! and get well soon Zidi.
the Cal Nat might be too rich for her tummy..some dogs seem to have problems with the richer foods. You might want to try something else, perhaps a straight _____ and rice (lamb, chicken, w/e). Once you get that squared away w/ her, you might be able to reintroduce "other" foods.
My labX can't handle "homestyle" canned foods i.e. Merrick's , Eatables etc but she can handle loaf style (we currently use Newman's organics) or homemade dog stews, she has the same issues you described below. She also had issues w/ "kitchen sink" type foods, Chicken Soup, Canidae etc.
You can also give her a Tagament if her stomach is too gurgly and she's too urpy.
Out of all the meats, chicken will sometimes cause allergic reactions in animals. It happens with ferrets. As this is happening so frequently, Could there maybe an allergy involved?
If it happened again when you gave her corn chips, it could be the corn - usually not recommended for dogs as a snack, but OFTEN used as a filler in processed kibble. Again, that would be an allergy issue.
SOrry I can't offer more, you'll have to wait for Dave to pop in.
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the Cal Nat might be too rich for her tummy..some dogs seem to have problems with the richer foods. You might want to try something else, perhaps a straight _____ and rice (lamb, chicken, w/e). Once you get that squared away w/ her, you might be able to reintroduce "other" foods.
My labX can't handle "homestyle" canned foods i.e. Merrick's , Eatables etc but she can handle loaf style (we currently use Newman's organics) or homemade dog stews, she has the same issues you described below. She also had issues w/ "kitchen sink" type foods, Chicken Soup, Canidae etc.
You can also give her a Tagament if her stomach is too gurgly and she's too urpy.
I agree about the California Natural. My parents tried their reduced-calorie food with their 10 y.o. black lab and it made him vomit. Not wanting to waste it, I gave some to my 2 y.o. mixed breed, Maggie and it made her vomit too. However, both dogs LOVE anything by Nature's variety.
Hmmm...I hadn't thought about the Cal Natural being too rich. I definitely could see that, but wouldn't it then happen all the time and not only a few days a week? Especially now that she's on it for both meals a day. I think this latest bag was herring and sweet potato or something to that effect. I wonder if I put her on an all home-made for a while...
Ironically, I used to have Raika on all home-made but re-introduced kibble part-time for the same reason, my meals were too rich and gave her tummy problems. At the time I used Eukanuba, but I think I'll pass on that one now.
I'll look into the corn, too but they've not had it in their kibble. Cal Nat doesn't put corn in their food. I have given them corn on the cob "bones", but only a few times. One of the things I really liked about Cal. Nat was that there are only a few ingredients and I recognized and approved of them all.
What really pisses me off is that when we adopted her she "came with" a bag of Ol' Roy brand food. I kind of feel like I'm making it worse by refusing to give her garbage. Arrgh!
Thanks for the input and advise, all-knowing-vegwebbers :)
What really pisses me off is that when we adopted her she "came with" a bag of Ol' Roy brand food. I kind of feel like I'm making it worse by refusing to give her garbage. Arrgh!
Aw, my pup (yellow lab, JD) didn't come with food, but that reminded me of when we got him (rescue) he was 110+ pounds and epileptic; we started him on Nutro Natural and walked him regularly, he's a trim, healthy 76 pounds now, seizure and phenobarb free!
So, stick with it, Nutdragon, it might be kinda bad right now, but you'll find the right combination of things and Zidi will thank you for getting rid of the cheapy Ol Roy :)
Hey Liz,
With regards to Zidi's diet, I think one of the biggest issues going on within her is that she spent over 2 years basically eating crap everyday. She was probably over-vaccinated as well. It's going to take her a while (6 months or so) to adjust to the "healthy" diet you now feed her.
Whenever any of my dogs get gassy, gurgle, vomit, etc. I use Ark Natural's Gentle Digest. it's a prebiotic & probiotic and it really does work. For her weight I'd give her 3 capsules a day.
For diarrhea, give her canned pumpkin with every meal....it works as well. My King has to have some everyday....he was always loose and when I started giving him pumpkin he's been firm and regular (TMI???).... You can also give her some pepto bismol (only when she's loose).
You can keep her on the Gentle Digest everyday. You could actually keep both pups on it. It does aid their digestion and besides "correcting" the problems you mentioned above with Zidi, it will help in the overall digestion of their food and help them absorb all the nutrition more efficiently into their bodies.
If that does not work......start burning a whole lot of incense after feeding time! ::)
Good Luck!
-dave
Thanks guys! I'll give it some more time. I'll also look into another type of kibble, but I think I should keep her off the "people food" for a while, except perhaps the pumpkin. Anyone know the physiology behind why that works?
We don't have a fence and haven't needed one (thanks to our amazingly smart and well mannered beasties ;) ) but we are planning to put in a small fenced area and a doggie door so she can let herself out in the middle of the night.
Dave, I'll get the Gentle Digest, thanks. I think I could handle the stinkiness, but the cleaning up of the foulness at 4 in the morning has got to stop. We've been keeping a "wee wee" pad by the back door, just in case. It's still not acceptable; I feel so bad for her sometimes.
I appreciate the help!
liz
Thanks guys! I'll give it some more time. I'll also look into another type of kibble, but I think I should keep her off the "people food" for a while, except perhaps the pumpkin. Anyone know the physiology behind why that works?
It's just very high in fiber. ;)
Thanks guys! I'll give it some more time. I'll also look into another type of kibble, but I think I should keep her off the "people food" for a while, except perhaps the pumpkin. Anyone know the physiology behind why that works?
It's just very high in fiber. ;)
We also feed my dogs canned pumpkin.
I'm not sure if you've had the Problem with your lab(s), Nutdragon, but many of my labs have had anal gland issues (and therefore need to go to the vet every few weeks to have them "expressed") and it's a stinky issue. The vet told us that the pumpkin also helps this, well, due to the fiber, I'm guessing.
I just do what the professionals tell me to do in regards to my doggies-- I have no extensive knowledge like Dave here... although I am learning quite a bit from everyone!
We also feed my dogs canned pumpkin.
I'm not sure if you've had the Problem with your lab(s), Nutdragon, but many of my labs have had anal gland issues (and therefore need to go to the vet every few weeks to have them "expressed") and it's a stinky issue. The vet told us that the pumpkin also helps this, well, due to the fiber, I'm guessing.
That's why KING has to take pumpkin everyday. He was left over "dog fighting bait" when he was a puppy and I rescued him...and as a result of his extensive wounds....he lost a lot of muscle "back there" (as well as in many other areas)...so....b/c of that..... he's always had really bad anal glad problems.....the extra fiber helps him express his glands on his own by making his stool very very firm....it really does helps him....as opposed to having to have them expressed by a vet...or even worse...me!
But as for Zidi....the pumpkin will help get rid of the diarrhea. :P
That's why KING has to take pumpkin everyday. He was left over "dog fighting bait" when he was a puppy and I rescued him...and as a result of his extensive wounds....he lost a lot of muscle "back there" (as well as in many other areas)...so....b/c of that..... he's always had really bad anal glad problems.....the extra fiber helps him express his glands on his own by making his stool very very firm....it really does helps him....as opposed to having to have them expressed by a vet...or even worse...me!
You must keep a lot of incense around, Dave ;D Anal gland juices=one of the grossest smells I've experienced :P Poor King (and you!)...
Oooo, I hadn't put A and B together...she is a stinky butt ;D
Actually, we had a rousing conversation a few weeks ago as to whether or not Zidi "really" was spayed, because of the type of odor (and we couldn't immediately find a scar and her little cooter was all swollen). We thought she may be in heat. Raika has always been pretty maintenance free (lucky us, I'm realizing), just the normal ears and hip issues with every Lab. I didn't realize the anal glands were expressed by a good poop. Makes sense, now.
I'm glad I asked the question...anymore valuable info, guys? Keep it coming!
Oooo, I hadn't put A and B together...she is a stinky butt ;D
Actually, we had a rousing conversation a few weeks ago as to whether or not Zidi "really" was spayed, because of the type of odor (and we couldn't immediately find a scar and her little cooter was all swollen). We thought she may be in heat. Raika has always been pretty maintenance free (lucky us, I'm realizing), just the normal ears and hip issues with every Lab. I didn't realize the anal glands were expressed by a good poop. Makes sense, now.
I'm glad I asked the question...anymore valuable info, guys? Keep it coming!
The pumpkin and therefore "good poop" does help, but I still have to take my dogs into the vet's office about every 6 weeks or so to get them taken care of.
Anal gland juices=one of the grossest smells I've experienced :P
Totally. And if the dog starts to "scoot" because it's uncomfortable.... well, it stains, too.
EW. Poor pups.
My labX as well..yeasty ears, lumpiness (one lump was mast-cell, thankfully her 5 new ones are just lipomas), anal glad problems.
Since I put her on a higher fiber food, (we currently feed Flint River Ranch Millet and Lamb) we haven't had an anal glad problem.
Is your dog doing any better?
The pumpkin and therefore "good poop" does help, but I still have to take my dogs into the vet's office about every 6 weeks or so to get them taken care of.
Every 6 weeks is really way too often to get your dogs anal glands expressed....that's not really good for your dog (to do it too often). It can actually cause "damage" back there...and in the long run..."increase" the build up of anal fluids and block the glands with solid matter:P
Even with my King (who has a problem with that).....the most you should ever have your dog "expressed" is about 4 times a year. If the glands are expressed too often.....it actually lets them fill up much quicker....and the glands get really packed and hard....leading to more discomfort for your dog.
And the food that majicka414 mentioned, "Flint River Ranch Millet and Lamb"....that too (as she stated) is a really great high fiber food.
i do feel that it's going to change....very shortly..and for the worse.....
I know Jim Flint...he lives near here in Roswell, GA (not to far from where I live...er...before I move back to NY). ...He is actually the person who sold my ex wife his Natural Pet Food store and helped her get it up and running...(well...to be honest...both of us bought the natural pet food store when we were still married). Too bad his son-in-law Jay P. is running the company now (Flint River Ranch).....trust me..... he's going to "run it into the ground".....he's a very greedy "f*ck looking to cut corners.....
So...to those of you that feed Flint River Ranch pet foods....it's still a great food....it's actually made for them by Breeder's Choice....but....as Jay P. gets more involved with the running of the operation....my guess...since he's a "bottom line" type of guy...the quality is going to go down hill...real fast. I'll keep you posted. I still feed it from time to time (since I change my doggies food every single day)....it's still a great food....truthfully.....I don't think it will last long. Jay P. is already looking for cheaper places to buy the ingredients.......he's looking to make more profit and cut corners...so..to me...he should be looking in the "other" direction....looking for better quality ingredients.....so nice of him to "care"....know what?,,,,,he does not even have a dog or cat as a pet.....I think he "hates" dogs and cats....but....he DOES like that he is now "taking over" Flint River Ranch.....how sad....:P
The pumpkin and therefore "good poop" does help, but I still have to take my dogs into the vet's office about every 6 weeks or so to get them taken care of.
Every 6 weeks is really way too often to get your dogs anal glands expressed....that's not really good for your dog (to do it too often). It can actually cause "damage" back there...and in the long run..."increase" the build up of anal fluids and block the glands with solid matter:P
Even with my King (who has a problem with that).....the most you should ever have your dog "expressed" is about 4 times a year. If the glands are expressed too often.....it actually lets them fill up much quicker....and the glands get really packed and hard....leading to more discomfort for your dog.
Hmmm. Thanks for the info Dave. I was guessing about 6 weeks, but I'll keep closer tabs to see how frequently it really is. I ignorantly assumed that my vet would tell me if it was too frequently, especially if it can cause harm.
yah keep me posted Dave.. I find that interesting...because it's a really nice company all around..good customer service and i'm THRILLED with everything about FRR. My dogs look great and they really love it.
It's a shame some people feel they have to run things into the ground a ruin things. If it aint broke..don't fix it. Hopefully Dad keeps a watchful eye over things..
*bump*
just curious for some updates, nutdragon, on how everything worked out - or any other ideas / input / experiences others may have...
we were up from 3:00 - 4:30 a.m. this morning cleaning up four different, um, hershey squirts on the walls and floors of our house, ick. i'm gonna try the bland, home-cooked diet (rice and cooked chicken?) and throw in some canned pumpkin as well. my dogs eat nature's variety and have been doing so for about three months now.
re: canned pumpkin - do you mix it in with the other food or serve it on its own?
thanks in advance for any input. my other dog just had surgery on her ear yesterday, so between trying to keep her from digging at her little stitches and trying to help my big man with his big problems, i feel like we're on doggie i.c. overload!!