designer dogs...yuk!
Posted by Anonymous on Feb 04, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Think of all the dogs in shelters that need a home... that are killed everyday...and people continue to breed. It's actually getting worse, not better.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/02/04/magazine/04dogs.t.html?ref=magazine
What if a COE breeder made a "designer" dog? Would that be ok?
THey wouldn't be a COE breeder if they did breed a 'designer" dog..COE is CODE OF ETHICS... COE breeders usually specialize in one specific breed..Rottweilers for example. What they are trying to do is preserve the breed as well as better the breed (i.e. breeding out temperment issues, health issues, undesired traits). A mixed-breed or "designer" breed is not purebred..even IF both parents ARE. A COE breeder, unless they've gone off their rockers (and a few have..trust me..look up Marion Lent) would NEVER breed 2 seperate breeds to create a "designer".
BYB= Back Yard Breeder..one who takes Muffy and Skip and breeds them cuz they are nice dogs.
what's wrong about breeding 2 different types of dogs together?
What grinds my beans about indiscriminate breeding is when it's because some macho man thinks that dogs "need a sex life." I'm serious, here in southern Spain if you ask a man why his dog hasn't been neutered you will often get a horrified, "Geez, why not just have him put to sleep if you're gonna "take it away from him"!"
I always respond that you don't miss what you've never had, and that neutering avoids dogs wandering and getting hit by cars or hurt in fights, or embarassing their owners by trying to mate with furniture and people's legs, as well as some of the health problems full males have as they age. Not to mention that these people who think that Fido needs a "full life" feel NO compunction at drowning unwanted puppies or just dumping them at the roadside.
BTW there is conventional wisdumb here that says that a bitch must be allowed to breed once to avoid mammary or uterine cancer. I know that this must be nonsense, but can anyone confirm my opinion?
Yabbit..your bitch must be bred once to prevent cancers is PARTLY true..its not BRED once..from the "new" articles that are coming out it's ONE heat cycle...not being bred...
Honestly..if you read both sides of the issue your head would spin in circles..some say spay at 6 mos to prevent issues..others say after one heat cycle.
Also..Ashley..I'm sorry I dont even know where to start with answering your question.. Breeding 2 different dog Breeds together is just assinine. It creates mutts. We have enough of them in our shelters to last 12 lifetimes...there's no reason I can see to breed a lab and a poodle..or a whatever and a whatever.
majicka414,
My Rotty Mix Shelby just came over and licked my face. If it was not for me being in this world, and finding her on the side of the road.... standing over her brother that was just hit by a car....she would NOT have just licked my face. Go buy A Rotty!....Get on a waiting list!...because when you buy he (or she), think about the one that just died waiting to go to a home. I'm sorry, but being a vegan...a true vegan means (in my world at least) that YOU DON"T BUY DOGS OR CATS...EVER! You support rescue groups, you support farm sanctuaries. You don't support breeders, or the circus...OR the AKC DOG SHOW! I guess that's just in my crazy little world....but in my world....Shelby here....thinks someone like you.....would have just driven by! (maybe on the way to go buy a new dog)....oh,sorry...she says...if it was a COE breeder...Shelby says she would understand!
I hate to flame here....but this is something I feel so strongly about. I spend thousands of my own dollars, and hundreds of hours, in the woods every year, trying to save dogs!...so any type of support...I mean ANY type of support for breeding dogs, will always be wrong in my eyes. It's just wrong to breed.... period!
I have no preference when it comes to mutts v. purebreds. I have a lab/standard poodle mix. I did not adopt her because she was a "designer dog." I don't view her as that. I adopted her because I just fell in love with her, she has so much heart. Also, in some cases, purebreds have more health problems than mutts. I have personal experience with this as my parents have a purebred black lab. That dog has been to the vet more times in his 9 years than I have been to the doctor in my 25 years! He has allergies, an itchy skin condition, an easily upset stomach and has to have special food. My mutt on the other hand goes to the vet for her shots and yearly checkup. That said, I have nothing against purebreds or mutts (I seriously love ALL dogs, no matter what they look like) Just adopt from a shelter!!!
Yes there are enough mutts in shelters to last 12 lifetimes. All the more reason to go to a shelter. Rescue a mutt because there are so many loving dogs that just want a good home and a family.
I've never claimed I'm a VEGAN.
Just because I am on a list to BUY a dog doesn't mean I'm one of those people who drive by dogs on the road etc etc..get your facts straight before you start accusing me of things I'm not. Amazingly I have SEVEN CHICKENS (who are rescues btw..from an abusive home) AND THREE FERAL CATS THAT I SUPPORT AS WELL AS MY THREE SHELTHER/RESCUE DOGS.
We agreed to disagree and you kept contining on and on..apparently now you've sunk down to insulting me...what next? are you going to tell me I'm fat and ugly? Seriously..
No matter what I say in "your eyes" it's wrong. Your so much better than me..pat yourself on the back. I'm so done with this conversation. ..Don't you have a collection of dogs that need taking care of or something?
Yeah....a collection...that's what I call them too....
No I did not insult you (did I say anything about the way you look?!?!?)....I only stand by my word...that buying a dog, and giving an income to someone that breeds dogs is WRONG! I'm not better then anyone. Maybe much worse then most....but I know in my heart, that breeding dogs and buying dogs, adds to the suffering of those stuck in the shelters, and those that die in them. Show me I'm wrong! I'm the most open minded person in the world if you have something you can teach me. As of yet, this is the best I've learned.... That you don't buy dogs....every time you do...it only adds to the problem...PLEASE teach me, and show me I'm wrong!
Heil.
Very, very, very, not funny.
Hi, I would like to jump back in here. I have volunteered at my local shelter, I write generous donations to them every year, and pretty much all of my prior pets have been from shelters.
HOWEVER, last year my family acquired--that is, paid hard currency for--two purebed Birman kittens. There were a number of reasons we did this that I won't go into, but one of them definitely was "because I wanted one." I've always wanted one--they are beautiful cats.
Now, I know there is a shelter full of cats not very far away who get one week to find a home and then that's it for them. But this is what I thought: I've done my part for those animals. And even if I take one, there is still going to be a ton more. And lastly, I am about as responsible a pet owner there is--I did not create this problem. My cats and dogs don't reproduce. I don't bring them back when I don't like them, or when they start vomiting all over my carpeting and furniture, or for any reason. I give them a happy and healthy life and love them as members of my family.
So why is it that my choices have to be limited simply because there are tons of irresponsible pet owners out there? Being a responsible pet owner is a good thing and there is nothing WRONG with getting a purebred animal. Perhaps there is an opportunity foregone to help out a homeless animal, but I will adopt other animals in the future. You can't always be penalizing people because they failed to take the highest road.
And let me tell you guys this . . . I reached this conclusion because I had already been through all the arguments pro and con when my husband and I were deciding if we should have our own children or adopt. Any moral argument you can make about adopting animals can also be made about adopting children versus having your own. At the end of the day, we decided to ignore the fact that millions of children are languishing in orphanages in third world countries and contribute to the overpopulation of the earth by having our own. And I still am not entirely sure how we got there but I do know that vanity played a part in it and, at the end of the day, it came down to what we WANTED. And, in some ways it was even more morally objectionable than paying for Birman kittens because, you know, at least the cats have been neutered.
I've got to pull out that article. We're already up to four pages on this board. Wow.
I don't know....I've always felt living for what I want was a horrible thing. Everyone else in the world seems to live that way, so I try not to. I can stomach not having a "purebreed" animal to look at, not indulging in animal flesh, not gorging myself on food when others starve....It seems pointless to me why people are so selfish when other organisms suffer so much.
But I don't judge. And I don't consider myself better than anyone/anything else--that's for damn sure.
I, too, have thought about the similarities between this debate and the having a child vs. adopting a child debate. Weirdly enough, it was this line of thinking that first lead me to seriously consider adopting a child (you know, in the future, when I'm a little bit older and ready for that sort of thing...).
At the same time, though, I don't think they're quite the same debate. You're not, afterall, giving birth to the purebred animal. ;) While a biological child would share your genetic make up, with an animal, in either case, you're adopting. So, the choice is more like choosing to adopt a rich baby, who will be fine whether you adopt her or not, or a poor baby, who will almost certainly die if you do not adopt her.
If you're veg or vegan and giving money and/or time to a shelter, you're already doing more than most people ever will and deserve a round of applause, IMO. A really big standing ovation, actually. :)
For me, though, it isn't about denying myself a purebred animal in order to adopt a shelter animal; I just actually can't imagine wanting a purebred animal given the beautiful shelter animals that need homes. I'm totally with DeuceO on this one. I love all animals, purebred or mutts, it doesn't matter. I just want them to come from a shelter. Both my kitties are "mutts" (can you use that word for cats?) who came from the shelter and they're smart and funny and basically everything you'd want out of a cat, so I just can't imagine what a purebred could give me that a shelter cat or dog couldn't. My family did own 2 purebred, reputable breeder-bought dogs when I was young, and they were great, much loved dogs, but no better than the mutts we've had since. In fact, given the many health problems purebreds have, they were worse, in some ways. I guess if getting a shelter animal over a purebred feels like denying yourself something you genuinely want, that's a different thing...
...It's so interesting to see the many strong and divergent opinions this thread has produced! Very educational.
Heil.
Very, very, very, not funny.
indeed. In very poor taste. :(
If you're veg or vegan and giving money and/or time to a shelter, you're already doing more than most people ever will and deserve a round of applause, IMO.
Very glad someone brought that point up. :)
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Ferret Research: http://ferretknots.blogspot.com/
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Mahatma Gandhi:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated."
Also, 7, I realized after reading your post above that I've taken to thinking of you as like the unoffical moderator of this forum. Keep up the good work! ;D
::) aww, shucks. . .
(I kinda thought I had a bit of a tendency to start trouble. . .but thanks)
Both my kitties are "mutts" (can you use that word for cats?)
Well, technically, "mutt" cats are usually referred to as "American (or European) shorthairs" if they do indeed have short hair...a nice way of saying "We don't know where it came from aside from the actual continent it was born on" :D. If the "mutt" has long hair it is usually referred to as a "Persian cross", conformation notwithstanding...kind of a blanket term as Persians are the most easily recognizable long-haired breed.
Interesting, no one ever refers to a cat as a "Heinz 57." (Edit: because no self-respecting cat would allow it...can you imagine the dirty look you would get? LOL)
Was having a conversation with DH the other night about the immense variety of conformations, coats and sizes in dogs (chihuahua or terrier vs. St. Bernard vs. whatever else) as opposed to cats. A cat is basically a cat, though length of coat and colour may vary. Even horses aren't as diverse, tho you do have the Shetland and the huge Clydesdale types. There is of course Prezwalsky's horse...didn't they decide that one had another name over the last 30 yrs, though?
One of my cats doesn't have a tail, so there's a Manx in her woodpile somewhere. She is crazy!!! I'm wondering if that is a trait of the Manx, too?
My opinion on this whole topic is the same as it is with anything: Don't support something you don't believe in or think it's unethical. There is always going to be things that go on that you don't like and the only thing you can do about it is do your part. Arguing with people who have a different point of view is pointless.
I don't know....I've always felt living for what I want was a horrible thing. Everyone else in the world seems to live that way, so I try not to. I can stomach not having a "purebreed" animal to look at, not indulging in animal flesh, not gorging myself on food when others starve....It seems pointless to me why people are so selfish when other organisms suffer so much.
But I don't judge. And I don't consider myself better than anyone/anything else--that's for d**n sure.
Hey Ashleykimball!
I have to say...you are very very wise beyond your years!
When I was younger and first starting to make so-called "big money"....I drove a Porsche, I wore a Rolex. I bought a big home in Pound Ridge, NY (look it up) and lived on the same street as Richard Gere and Denzel Washington (so what, who cares?!). But do you know what happened? I grew up! I grew up when I first became a vegetarian and realized that everything in life I thought was important....was not! I'm no better than anyone either....I did figure out in my life that i wanted to make a change. I wanted to help those less fortunate than I. it's not about going to a ball and writing a check for $10,000. It's about getting my hands dirty and doing things hands on! When I look back to the person I was 8 or 9 years ago, I think that I wasted a lot of money on stupid things, and made dumb choices. But, I'm glad I learned about the things that are now important to me. I'm glad that I know that little by little I can make a difference. Not by writing checks (though I do), but more importantly, by saving the lives of those that not only make up my family (of dogs), but by also getting great homes for those that I could not include into my family. Thanks for your honest and heart felt post....I happen to be on my same page of thinking as you on this topic....I'm not saying it's right, or it's wrong...it's just what I believe.
-dave
"I don't know....I've always felt living for what I want was a horrible thing. Everyone else in the world seems to live that way, so I try not to. "
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AshleyK: When I used the term "want" above, I used to to mean "the thing from which I would derive the most value." This is, by and large, what motivates people and how they make decisions, even seemingly altruistic decisions. IMO, it's the way we are wired and there isn't that much one can do about it.
The key, then, is demonstrate why one choice offers more value than another. This is very different than guilting people into things. I don't think you can sustain any kind of significant long term change through the guilt/selfless sacrifice approach.
And, I hate to bring everything back to PETA, but that is where I think they have failed.
from jkl
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