Space exploration debate
Posted by lisaanddini on Jun 11, 2008 · Member since May 2007 · 2179 posts
I almost put this in the Obama thread but I didn't want to threadjack it.
I don't really understand why people are so excited about going to Mars......seems like space exploration is mighty expensive, and what do we actually gain from it? Smooch disagrees with me. He thinks we need to explore oother planets because we might find something useful, like the cure for cancer or something. I don't really see that happening. I'd like to see our tax dollars go to solving some of our problems on this planet before we go messing up other planets.
Haha, thanks for making a new thread for this, Lisa!
Well, I have a hard time justifying going to space when there are so many things on Earth we have to take care of. Space exploration is SO expensive and we don't know what the returns will be. (Granted, we can't know them until we explore more, I guess). But there are so many things we can do with that money on Earth KNOWING that we are doing something positive and knowing what the outcome will be. And especially at a time like this where our economy is so screwed, how can we justify throwing money at Mars? I think space exploration is important--we shouldn't abandon it entirely--but should not be a priority. If that even makes sense, given its cost.
OK good, I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way. I really have a hard time trying to explain my position on topics like this and I feel that IRL I come off as naive or uneducated on the subject because I'm not good at arguing and elaborating how I feel.
My favorite subject, space exploration has always been a fascinating topic for me, I can't be an astronaut because of my eyes but I have always wanted to be one.
Here are the reason that NASA gives for exploring the moon:
Human Civilization
Extend human presence to the Moon to enable eventual settlement.
Scientific Knowledge
Pursue scientific activities that address fundamental questions about the history of Earth, the solar system and the universe - and about our place in them.
Exploration Preparation
Test technologies, systems, flight operations and exploration techniques to reduce the risks and increase the productivity of future missions to Mars and beyond.
Global Partnerships
Provide a challenging, shared and peaceful activity that unites nations in pursuit of common objectives.
Economic Expansion
Expand Earth's economic sphere, and conduct lunar activities with benefits to life on the home planet. (I think this may include mining the resources that the moon offers)
Public Engagement
Use a vibrant space exploration program to engage the public, encourage students and help develop the high-tech workforce that will be required to address the challenges of tomorrow.
My personal reasons is because exploring the moon, and beyond is an adventure, it is something that can expand our knowledge, encourage education, and give humans a dream to pursure. The human race has always been a race of explorers, we need to reach out to new and exciting destinations, and there is no new frontiers to explore on earth, so the next logical step is space. Humans have to evolve to the space age, it is the next logical step to human evolution.
We know more about the surface of the moon than we do about the sea floor. As an oceanography major, I think we should be focusing more on learning about the resources we have on our own world, instead of looking to other planets first. There are a lot of resources on the seafloor that we could be using if funding were available to research and develop clean and viable technologies.
We know more about the surface of the moon than we do about the sea floor. As an oceanography major, I think we should be focusing more on learning about the resources we have on our own world, instead of looking to other planets first. There are a lot of resources on the seafloor that we could be using if funding were available to research and develop clean and viable technologies.
Yeah...but that isn't as interesting to me...I am a Mechanical Engineer with a minor in Aerospace Engineering, exploring the seafloor just doesn't sound as cool to me. I love to study rocket engines and space vehicles, how they work and such. Space vehicles are way cooler than submarines. ;D
I know how you feel, Lisa. I feel a bit ignorant about space exploration and am bad at articulating my feelings about it.
As far as settlement on other planets goes, I don't really understand that. Honestly? Honestly? Do we honestly think that we should be working toward that? The magnitude of that undertaking boggles my mind. Can you imagine the money and resources and fuel that would take? And the risk? I understand that the technology is always developing, and that it could become feasible. But something really bothers me about the thought that "It's OK, we can eventually inhabit the moon and/or Mars, we're fine the way things are going on Earth!" I mean, we should be focusing on sex education in developing countries, empowering women in developing countries, bringing food to the hungry, and working on more sustainable technologies that work with the resources we've got! Things like that. We can figure out how to get to space, but we can't figure out how to live on the one planet we already have! Let's not get ahead of ourselves! What are we going to do when we get to Mars? Crap all over it like we are doing to the Earth?
What are we going to do when we get to Mars? Crap all over it like we are doing to the Earth?
EXACTLY!! We've already screwed up one planet, do we need to screw them all up? I'm all for increasing our knowledge of the universe, but I don't think that's really why our government supports space exploration. I think they are far more interested in the military applications.
SQ, I don't want you to feel like I'm picking on you, it's just that you are the only one who responded with that point of view, so I want to address all your points one by one. I'm actually hoping that you turn around and convince me that space travel is a good thing.
"Human Civilization
Extend human presence to the Moon to enable eventual settlement."
KMK already addressed this one. I think it is still far in the future & why should we go spend a bunch of time & money to make someplace else suitable to live on when the only reason why there is anything wrong with earth is because of us?
"Scientific Knowledge
Pursue scientific activities that address fundamental questions about the history of Earth, the solar system and the universe - and about our place in them."
ok so lets say we one day figure out exactly how the universe was made. Where does that really get us?
"Exploration Preparation
Test technologies, systems, flight operations and exploration techniques to reduce the risks and increase the productivity of future missions to Mars and beyond."
I don't see any reason for future trips to Mars
Global Partnerships
Provide a challenging, shared and peaceful activity that unites nations in pursuit of common objectives.
I don't know how well this works. Supposedly the Olympics was supposed to achieve this
Economic Expansion
Expand Earth's economic sphere, and conduct lunar activities with benefits to life on the home planet. (I think this may include mining the resources that the moon offers)
So do we think the moon has gold and diamonds in the middle of it? or oil? Let's pretend it does, how are we going to get those resources back to earth so we can use them? Doesn't this seem expensive? Why don't we just try to use up less resources here first?
Public Engagement
Use a vibrant space exploration program to engage the public, encourage students and help develop the high-tech workforce that will be required to address the challenges of tomorrow.
So one of the purposes of the space program is to make sure it continues?
My personal reasons is because exploring the moon, and beyond is an adventure, it is something that can expand our knowledge, encourage education, and give humans a dream to pursure. The human race has always been a race of explorers, we need to reach out to new and exciting destinations, and there is no new frontiers to explore on earth, so the next logical step is space. Humans have to evolve to the space age, it is the next logical step to human evolution.
I don't see how it is the next step in evolution. I just see it as causing problems. As Lydia mentioned, you want to see someplace new, How about the seafloor?
Yeah...but that isn't as interesting to me...I am a Mechanical Engineer with a minor in Aerospace Engineering, exploring the seafloor just doesn't sound as cool to me. I love to study rocket engines and space vehicles, how they work and such. Space vehicles are way cooler than submarines.
OK so this is basically how I feel most people who are for space exploration really feel. They try to make it sound all important, but relaly they just think it sounds cool. I think that is really selfish. If people want to study rockets, that's fine, by why should government money go to that?
yeah, as far as im concerned space exploration is pretty unecessary/pointless.
i don't really care what's out there, not knowing doesn't keep me up at night :D
lol...
we already messed up one planet afterall
I like the technology that comes out of space travel.
Benefits of Space Travel <----- hyperlink alert, ac
I like the technology that comes out of space travel.
Benefits of Space Travel <----- hyperlink alert, ac
Interesting, thank you. I never thought about that...
I can appreciate the technology that comes out of space travel, but I am still not sure that that's a good enough reason. I think that the technology link (http://www.adventureblog.org/entry/benefits-of-space-travel/) is also a bit misleading. It implies that we would not have all those technologies if not for space travel. I am not well-educated enough about all of those technologies to comment on all of them, but take the PC. The Apple company's pioneering of the PC back in the 70's (and the work of its predecessors in developing the PC) had very little to do with space exploration, even if some aspects of PC do originate in space technology (as the link suggests), from what I understand. And today, the development of new technology is largely consumer-driven. Who's to say that these technologies wouldn't have developed on their own in time? Sure, space travel provides additional motivation and government funding, but it all seems very roundabout. And the development of consumer technology isn't even one of NASA's purported goals of space travel, just a nice side effect.
I do think technology for monitoring the atmosphere, weather, etc., is very, very important, especially as we examine climate change. But there is a huge difference between satellites and weather stations and traveling to other planets. We can still develop those technologies without throwing some much money into other aspects of space exploration. It doesn't have to be all or nothing.
I also have a friend who wants to be an astronaut, and it also seems like it's mostly an emotion-driven aspiration. She is interested in space shuttles the same way she is interested in fancy cars--she thinks they are cool and shiny and can go really fast. She likes the novelty. And I am uncomfortable with the way space travel is woven into the "American dream" by NASA. I mean, lots of space technology was developed in the arms race with the Soviet Union. There is a lot of glory to be enjoyed by achieving successful space travel (if we put that much emotional weight into it), but that isn't a good enough reason in and of itself.
As far as resources on other planets goes, if someone can convince me that this would be cost-effective, I would love to see that analysis.
DH works in aeronautics, so I'd have to say I'm pro-space.
Maybe they'll only let us super cool liberal vegans inhabit the next planet.
KMK, when I get through my next round of classes I would be honored to prepare a cost-benefit feasibility analysis of space travel for you. Do you prefer Excel or a statistics software package? ;)
Oh goodness, I never want to use Excel again if I can help it. But you can give us the bottom line. The major assumptions and figures.
DH works in aeronautics, so I'd have to say I'm pro-space.
Cool! Then he can get a job at JPL and you can live in Pasadena and drop into LA and eat at good vegan restaurants.
What are we going to do when we get to Mars? Crap all over it like we are doing to the Earth?
EXACTLY!! We've already screwed up one planet, do we need to screw them all up? I'm all for increasing our knowledge of the universe, but I don't think that's really why our government supports space exploration. I think they are far more interested in the military applications.
OK, I know we've learned some stuff from space exploration, and I have a "friend" who claims he used to work for NASA, and he spouts about how we wouldn't have a lot of stuff we have if it hadn't been developed for the space race...but I really think we could do something about world poverty, child disease, infant mortality and a whole lot of other earth problems with those millions and millions and millions.
Nough said. I will now crawl back under my rock with my 17th century literature. :-X
Space exploration does drive education and help with technology.
NASA puts a LOT of their money right back into the community. In college, for instance, I was on a team called the Miners in Space team. We were a team that entered a NASA challenge every year. One of our proposals won, before I joined, that is. The challenge is a program where universities submit proposals to NASA detailing experiments that would be benificial to be tested in zero gravity. The proposal my team won was one with welding of aluminum in zero gravity. The team built a machine that welded these alluminum strips. What NASA provided was a free ride on the "vomit comit", the zero G aircraft. Talk about learning all there is to know about welding, they learned it! I came in late, but I had to learn about it, I learned the differences between welding alluminum and other materials, diffrent kinds of welding. Turns out, in zero G, welds get bubbles in them reducing their strength.
The following year I was with the team and we proposed to make the machine air tight. We wanted to create a box where the welding was done inside and a pump was hooked up to it so that we would weld the aluminum in a vacuum, as well as in zero G.
But we lost to another university who proposed running an experiment to weld titanium in zero G, and welding of titanium has all kinds of issues.
NASA also gave grant money, as also did Boeing, to the Cloud and Aerosol Science Laboratory where I worked for about a year. They did particulate research.
Also, if you eliminated space exploration how many children would stop putting an effort in to the subjects of math and science because their dream of being an astronaut is taken away?
Most of those children who work so hard in math and science grow up to become not astronauts, but engineers, mathmatitions, physisits, etc. I was one of those children. I loved space and space exploration and did good in math and science because of my dream of working for NASA one day, a dream that I still have to this day.
It bothers me that space travel is a feat for individual countries, for the most part. Sure there are Russian and Canadian astronauts (for example) working with NASA, but NASA is an American body. If anything, we should have a global space research organization (maybe something like this already exists, maybe that's what NASA is, but as far as I know...)
And I agree, there are plenty of problems right here that take precedence.
Also, if you eliminated space exploration how many children would stop putting an effort in to the subjects of math and science because their dream of being an astronaut is taken away?
Most of those children who work so hard in math and science grow up to become not astronauts, but engineers, mathmatitions, physisits, etc. I was one of those children. I loved space and space exploration and did good in math and science because of my dream of working for NASA one day, a dream that I still have to this day.
I take issue with this. I recognize that the dream of space exploration can be good motivation to pursue careers in science. But we are missing the point here. Why is it important for children to take an interest in science, math, and physics? Training them for future careers in space exploration is one reason, but only one. A minute percentage of children will become astronauts. There is something wrong with the way we teach math and science to our students if the only thing motivating them to study these subjects is the dream of being an astronaut, which isn't to say that aspiring to be an astronaut isn't worthwhile. But we should be also impressing upon them the importance of the thousands upon thousands of other careers involving math and science. This attunes them to the problems and challenges we face here on Earth already and makes them better-informed citizens.
That NASA puts a lot of the money they receive for space travel right back into educating kids about the importance of space travel seems a bit circular to me.
I am still having trouble with this issue. I think there is a place for space exploration in our society, definitely. But saying "look at how many good things happened to have come from space travel" just isn't enough to convince me. It seems rather backwards and indirect.
I also think you have a good point about space travel as a feat for individual countries as well, laurabs.
I will be the first to admit that the dream of space exploration can not become a reality until the world unites for it. No single country can do it alone, that is impossible, it has to be a global endeaver.
But as far as pushing math and science, they are the most important subjects. Yes there is art, and other stuff but what does that do? Without math and science we wouldn't have: doctors, prosthetic limbs, wheelchairs, bridges, cars, buildings, staplers, boats, computers, internet, satellites...just about everything! And if the promise of space exploration gets kids motivated in these subjects then it is defiately worth it. Like you said 99% of the kids who do good at math and science becuase of the dream of space grow up to never go an industry that has anything with space, but because they work so hard at math and science they go into industries that keep the world turning. In college I chose engineering and worked really hard because I wanted to work for NASA. Unfortunately, I wasn't quite smart enough so my GPA was only 3.4 at graduation, not good enough for NASA, so I work in a comepletly different industry: the oil and gas industry. But if it hadn't been for my dream of space then I wouldn't have gotten my degree in engineering, and certainly wouldn't have put as much effort into it as was needed to get even a 3.4 GPA.