Percentage of cows who die on the way to slaughter?
Hi everyone. This will be lengthy, so forgive me! I'm trying to kind of sort out my own thoughts, and am looking for some input from you all, as well. :)
Last night, my boyfriend & his dad had a discussion about animal welfare, vegetarianism, and Christianity, after my boyfriend showed him a video made by the Humane Society that focused on Christianity & Vegetarianism (great film, by the way!). Neither my boyfriend nor myself are Christian, but his parents are Christian & conservative, and really just don't understand vegetarianism. I don't think his mom even knows what "vegan" means, no matter how many times I've explained it. :-\ I love them, but it can be frustrating. So, my boyfriend showed this video in an effort to get them to at least understand where we're coming from.
Anyway, one of the things his dad said was that even though over 1,000,000 cows die on the way to slaughter each year (the figure quoted in the film), the percentage of cows who die on the way to slaughter is actually lower now than it was, say, 30 or 40 years ago.
I have no clue where he got this idea, but my boyfriend didn't know of anything concrete to prove it false. (I was there, too, but didn't want to join in on a family dispute, and I didn't have anything to add since I couldn't quote any figures offhand that countered his argument.) His dad kept saying that it's only 1% of cows who die each year on the way to slaughter, so what we "don't understand is that things are actually improving." Supposedly something like 30% of cows died on the way to slaughter years ago?
Does anyone know of any hard numbers to prove this claim false? I don't believe him - but even if it is true, the fact is that more animals overall are actually being slaughtered every year... I don't call that an improvement, but he seemed to be stuck on this one point. Additionally, I don't think we used bulldozers 40 years ago to push sick, downed cows off to slaughter (as shown from that undercover HSUS footage, and also in the film last night)... The discussion basically ended with my boyfriend saying, "I think you need to focus on the overall message instead of picking apart this one aspect of the video." His dad said okay, and that was that. He told my boyfriend to get back to him if he had anything to prove him wrong... Again, I think the point of his argument is all off & isn't focusing on the overall number of animals who are slaughtered (it's not like we only care about the downer cows who die on the way to slaughter; we think it's wrong that all animals are killed).
Any help you guys can provide to debunk this argument is greatly appreciated!
If that is all he was stuck on after watching the video...I would think sadly that anything you say or show him is not going to matter anyway..he just doesn't seem to care enough.
You know, after I typed all that out & saw it in front of me, I thought the exact same thing. I didn't expect that the video would make him want to go vegetarian, but I guess I sort of hoped that seeing it from a Christian perspective would open his mind a little. I felt so bad for my boyfriend (Nick) because this video actually wasn't just shown in our living room or something; he worked really hard to organize an event through a local animal advocacy group, at which this video was shown, a vegetarian minister spoke, and a professor in religion from a local university (who is vegan) spoke, as well. It was a wonderful two-hour event, and I couldn't believe this is all he had to say afterward.
I think it's fabulous that Nick's family came to support this event he had worked so hard on, but immediately afterward, his dad literally said, "Great job putting this together! One thing that was totally ridiculous was..." and then launched into this downer cow crap. I think it's extra hard for me to deal with sometimes because my family could not be more supportive of our lifestyle. They request that we have vegan Thanksgivings, vegan Christmases, my mom orders vegan cakes for birthdays, makes vegan baked goods for me for special treats, etc. My family even orders vegetarian dishes in restaurants when I'm around, and they eat a lot of vegetarian meals, having only the very occasional piece of fish or chicken (and they were not like that when I was growing up!). I know this is rare, and that I'm really lucky (Believe me! I think about how lucky I am - and tell my family as such - all the time) - but it kind of makes it that much more frustrating to be around Nick's family who couldn't care less about where their food comes from. His mom even asks me advice on how to prepare cheesy potatoes, ham, chicken, etc. It's like, "Uhhhh? I don't eat that stuff, and it makes me sad to even think about." :o She knows I love to cook & I think she's just trying to bond with me by talking about food, but that's just an example of how disconnected they are & how they just completely don't understand us. His dad also offers Nick leftover pork & such to take home from family gathers to "eat at work tomorrow." Ummmm, what?
Of course, I don't expect the world to cater to my beliefs (most people don't, and my family didn't right away, either), but it is just really hurtful to see how Nick's family behaves because they're such awesome people otherwise; they just have such a disconnect when it comes to animals. Maybe I just needed to vent. I definitely feel a little better...
i think instead of engaging in the debate with your bf's father - you can rise above the debate by providing recognition that it's not the number that's important but rather the collective suffering of the animals - is what really counts. in this manner - he won't be able to debate back with you because you're not disputing the information that he's providing while at the same time - there is no disputing the facts that you're providing - that being that the animals do suffer.
Even for animals that don't die in transit, the conditions these animals are kept in during transit - in those trucks with th metal sidings and the holes in the metal - i would have to imagine that especially during the hot summer months and cold winter months - for those conditions to be deplorable.
Thank you, sirdidymus37. Those are really good points.
however, if you did want to engage in a debate you could ask you bf's dad for evidence to back up his argument.. it seems really odd that he would know these random 'facts' offhand..
however, if you did want to engage in a debate you could ask you bf's dad for evidence to back up his argument.. it seems really odd that he would know these random 'facts' offhand..
Right?! Nick actually did ask him where these figures were from, and his dad said, "I'm a farm boy! I keep an eye on things like this." Buuuut, he didn't grow up on an actual farm; his parents lived in the sticks & had a lot of acreage. ::) Not the same thing in my book. Nick then asked where these numbers were specifically from (source), but he just said that he "knows these things," and if we can prove him wrong, be his guest.
Truthfully, I'm pretty sure he either made up the figures or saw some sort of "news" story about it on FOX (his favorite) or something - probably around the time those undercover HSUS downer cow videos came out last year. I don't know. I don't want it to sound like I dislike Nick's family in any way; I love them. The way his dad was speaking wasn't nasty or "in your face." It was just upsetting that he was so closed minded after seeing such a wonderful video & presentation, and wouldn't allow himself to think about vegetarianism even for a moment. BUT, I guess a seed has been planted, and like I said in my first post - maybe Nick's parents will at least understand us a little better & stop offering us meat at family gatherings. It's possible that he was putting up such a fight as a defense mechanism, too. I mean, this is a man who literally cannot imagine a meal without meat, and he's been that way for all 50 years of his life. Change can be scary, and as we all know, people are pretty defensive about their dietary choices.
ha! well, according to those qualifications, i guess im a farm girl! dirt road, horses around, christmas tree farm behind us.. so in that case, i say he's wrong. now you can go to him and tell him a 'farm girl' on the internet said he's full of it.
yeah - i really think he's the one that needs to supply his sources for this info.. how exactly can you repute it if you don't know his numbers? otherwise, you can say anything and he'd still say it was way more 'way back when'.
do you bring alot of food along with you when you go over there? it's so weird to me that they continue to offer you guys meat. i can't imagine how uncomfortable thats gotta be, i haven't been in a serious relationship since going vegan, but as a vegetarian i was lucky that my ex's mom was really great about reading labels and even now when i see her (when im visiting my ex's sister & kids) she's so excited to bring over vegan veggie patties from costco, try my cookies & then want to know all the vegan baking secrets. my parents are understanding, they don't even try to offer me non-veg stuff, but when i go home they don't cook me anything - they pretty much expect me to cook for them. i actually laughed on christmas cus i was standing in the kitchen talking to my uncle who was going on and on about the best way to make ham as he was slicing up the last of it to pack up, and he went to hand me a piece to try. i just had to laugh - i was like ''i havent eaten meat in like 13 years!" and he was all 'oh geez thats right! im sorry - i forgot!' there was no need to get upset about it, it was an honest mistake and he wasnt trying to antagonize me with it. if my parents did that on the other hand i would have to give them a 'are you crazy? look'
youre right about the seed being planted though - it might not seem like it now, but you never know - he could really be thinking about it in there, but too defensive right now to acknowledge anything wrong with the practices he supports.
Thanks for the comments, PPC! It really helps just to have someone else to vent to. I gripe a little to Nick about it, but it's obviously it's his family & I don't want to offend him or give the wrong impression like I don't like being around them.
I agree that it is totally bizarre that they offer us meat... Cheesy potatoes or something I can understand a little more because some people aren't clear on what "vegan" means, but it's like, Come on. We've been vegan for almost two years, so it's just weird. Plus, like I said, we've explained it many times - and I do bring lots of yummy stuff to share when we see them. I think me sharing treats with them actually confuses them more because it seems like they have this idea of what life without dairy, eggs, and meat is like... And then when I bring vegan "cheesecake" or cupcakes with "buttercream" frosting, it throws them for a loop & they're like, "Wait, maybe they do eat this stuff?" They've never said anything like that to me, but I just can't make sense of it other than that! But I always say, "I made this with dairy-free butter" or "This cheesecake is vegan & made without dairy or eggs." They seem to get it - but then the next time we see them, they'll offer us a piece of cheesecake from Sam's Club or something. ???
I really cannot explain it. It's like his mom has a mental block or something where she just can't comprehend someone not eating eggs or dairy. I think she offers the meat as a courtesy; like she doesn't want to be rude by "excluding" us? Who knows. At least they're great people in other respects! I have friends who have much worse problems with their "in-laws" (we're not married, but you know what I mean).