let's talk about sex, baby...
Posted by VegHeadZealia on Mar 06, 2008 · Member since Mar 2007 · 1665 posts
I thought that would get your attention! Okay you perves...So I am reading this book called "as nature made him" its about gender reassignment with infants, particularly one infant boy who was born an identical twin and lost his penis in a circumsion accident so he was turned into an anatomical female. Its very compelling and kinda disturbing...anyways...it would make for intersting talk if anyone has either read or is interested in picking up a copy we can have a reading/discussion group thing...you know.?....baypuppy?
Circumcision accident??? Um, how's that? They're only supposed to cut off a very small piece of the foreskin, not the whole thing!!! Now I'm intrigued. That is so disturbing, turning him into a "girl" because some dumbass cut off his penis. I've watched a handful of medical shows on transgendered people, and gender reassignment surgery, they're so interesting. I can't imagine waking up everyday feeling like I was born in the wrong body. Crazy. I get paid tomorrow, I'll see if I can find the book around here, I'd love to discuss.
There was a Law and Order SVU about this! Two twins--both boys but 1 made into an anatomical girl due to an accident--but the "girl" was still very much a boy and so the parent sent them both to a special sex therpist--well the therapist ends up dead and they can't figure out which one did the crime since they have the same dna--whole thing was really messed up!
Anyways--that probably won't make sence to anyone who didn't see the episode--fasinating subject though!
I thought that would get your attention! Okay you perves...So I am reading this book called "as nature made him" its about gender reassignment with infants, particularly one infant boy who was born an identical twin and lost his penis in a circumsion accident so he was turned into an anatomical female. Its very compelling and kinda disturbing...anyways...it would make for intersting talk if anyone has either read or is interested in picking up a copy we can have a reading/discussion group thing...you know.?....baypuppy?
I think I rememer hearing a story about this happening in Canada several years ago- I think maybe in Ontario.
there was a documentary about it. Few people know that the practice was to perform circumcision using a cauterization technique. In this case the tissue caught on fire causing the accident. Yeah it's actually a sad story and the two brothers did go to see a therapist who was studying the to see if gender could be taught (nature versus nurture and such). Very close to the Law and Order episode actually. Although I don't believe the therapist ended up dead.
my gracious! I didn't know they committed suicide. The book I'm reading was published int eh ate 80s and I'm 2/3 of the way through now...no suicide yet. Things seemed like they were finally begging to work out for those two, too...how depressing. I guess I don't find it entirely surprising because that 'therapist" did some sick $h!t to them...What i did findamusing was that the author went into detail about where Dr. Money lived "and still lives to this day..." he all but gave the guys address. I had to snicker at that...like he was inviting somebody to take justice into their own hands...I have always been a pretty firm "nurturist," if you will and this book was quite the eye opener. I would defiantly use it for recommended or required reading for your class BP.
To tell you the truth this book is causing me to reconsider a lot of what I have thought about gender identity and how it develops...I'm interested in reading a book about someone who was raised in their biological sex but felt it was the wrong sex. Do they feel as if they have been mislabeled as strongly as David did? I'll take recommendations...
"Doctor Money"? Surely a pseudonym? Because if it isn't, it's as ironic as hell....
That said, the producer of the old "Becker" series was named Linda Moneymaker...I guess they would want her on their team!
To tell you the truth this book is causing me to reconsider a lot of what I have thought about gender identity and how it develops...I'm interested in reading a book about someone who was raised in their biological sex but felt it was the wrong sex. Do they feel as if they have been mislabeled as strongly as David did? I'll take recommendations...
same here - I haven't read the book you're talking about, but I just finished a unit on gender identity and transexuality in women's studies. it got me thinking - does gender actually exist? what does it really mean to be male/female? ultimately though, I think we need to just let people be. female, male, neither, or both. whatever.
------------spoiler----if you can call it that...
So the twins did not kill themselves. they did both try to though.The book I was reading was indeed the one Baypuppy identified and it was published in 2000, like she says. They have killed themselves later, but they had not at the time the book was published. its a very sad story regardless...the more I read the more I thought that it was not the BEST book to suggest for everyone to read. It was pretty hard to take in.
Dr money was his real name. Colapinto said specifically that none of the names had been changed and that all the conversations were verbatim from notes and recorded conversations. There was an exception of one individual who was a patients of moneys who DID use a different name but that was noted...
One thing that i was especially angered by was that this surgery actually was an accepted for of treatment until 1996 and all most the whole reason was because of the "twins case" which Dr Money had reported as a total success and was anything BUT.
I was further outraged that the most comprehensive study ever done on individuals with varying degrees on intersex charteristcs and other genital deformities was conducted by Dr money himself for his senior thesis paper. he based his whole practice on the concept that individuals with irregular genitals could not lead normal lives, but his very own thesis concluded much differently. the study was on 251 patients and Dr Money said that there was little to suggest that they had any difficulty adapting to life and that indeed many of the people had a more positive attitude than patients with "normal" ones. I really wonder if this guy was just sick, or what? but I also want to know how he was able to doop everyone for more than three decades! wasnt anyone else researching this stuff? Wasnt anyone else noticing that it wasnt working? NONE of his other patients stepped forward to say they were being sexually abused by him? I just dont get how we can be so.....well, like sheep!
bahhhh!
laurabs, what readings did you do in class for that unit?
gender doesn't exist but gender ideologies do. aww, the limits of bodies and our crazy sex/gender system.
ok, Im looking at my syllabus right now. "Male Lesbians and the Post Modernist Body" by Jacqueline Zita, Jusith Butler's "Imitation and Gender Insubordination"', "The Five sexes Revisited" by Anne Fausto-Sterling. we also watched a film called "Is it a Boy or a Girl?" which was really interesting, and even made me a little sad. why can't we all just get along and accept each other?
When I read the subject heading my mind finishes with, "let's talk about you and me / let's talk about all the good things and the bad things that can be / let's talk about sex." Everytime without fail.
When I read the subject heading my mind finishes with, "let's talk about you and me / let's talk about all the good things and the bad things that can be / let's talk about sex." Everytime without fail.
Me too!
>:D
I haven't read that book but I do know the "case" . It is terrible and makes my stomach churn knowing that when a child is born with "irregular genitals" that they are surgically reconstructed to suite the "norm". What makes me even more angry is that when a boy is born and his penis is deemed "to small" it is because they are basing it on whether or not he will be able to have vaginal intercourse later in life. As if being a man means you have to be able to pleasure a woman vaginally with your penis and as if vaginal, heterosexual sex is the only sex that can be done.
I really believe that Dr. Money was only doing this "experiment" for self gain. It was sort of a new study and I think what he was trying to do was make it look like it was working even when it was clearly not so that he would gain a sort of fame...or something. I think I read somewhere that even after David decided to live as male, Dr. Money still doctored his "notes" to say something like it was still working.
You could read something by Kate Bornstein if you're interested in gender/sex change, etc. I think she has a book called "Gender Outlaw" (or something to the effect). She's SO funny, especially when she talks about gender "laws". Basically Kate was born a biological man and has since decided that was not for her and has now been living as a physical women for...hhmmm a long time? Anyway, look her up, she's lovely.
Hey Zealia...sorry to bring this back up again bbbuuuttt....I was JUST reading "Doing Justice to Someone: Sex Reassignment and Allegories Of Transexuality". It's an article by Judith Butler that deals directly with David's "case" (although in the article it is referred to as the John/Joan case because the names were changed at the time of writing the article...presumably to protect privacy...?). Anyway, I just thought you might be interested in looking it up.
Ohhh...I at my library now, i shall look for this. It might take me a while to find it because they do not employ the Dewey decimal system here, but I shall try. Thank you!
aawwwwgh, I read the headline thinking his was going to be a crazy-fun TMI thread about our sex lives or something...
and now I'm reminded of this case that I've only read so much about, and my stomach is upset just thinking about it all...
thanks a LOT, VHZ!
:winktongue:
in all seriousness, though, I'm glad you brought this up on the board..it's a pretty important topic that doesn't really get enough attention--only in recent years has MY sheltered existence become familiar with such stories, and I know there are plenty of others who still don't know about what has happened/can happen to intersexed individuals. Heck, I'd not have even known, before leaving for college, that is, that such conditions exist had I not stumbled upon a TLC documentary one day...but I digress...
anyway, this is something I'm excited to discuss here...my VW activity will be sporadic for the next few weeks, but count me in on talkin' bout sex, bay-bee...
/I'm too sexy