Wanna fix an airplane? Kill a few goats!
Posted by Anonymous on Sep 05, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
...and I thought Hindu was a peaceful religion >:( Oh well....just another reason why I'm an atheist
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070904/od_nm/nepal_airline_odd_dc
I wonder how they fix cars in Nepal? ???
Poor goats. :(
Hmm...
Hope they work on the actual "electrical fault" before they let passengers on those planes...
I wonder if I should worry on my next flight if US Airways is "praying" to fix plane malfunctions or actually using actual tools. :o
I wonder if I should worry on my next flight if US Airways is "praying" to fix plane malfunctions or actually using actual tools. :o
;D ;D ;D ;D
Who needs all those pesky old tools anyway when all you have to do is pray?! :o
I wonder if that would work on my car? Sorry, I shouldn't even joke like that. :( Poor goats.
"...My faith is a very, it's very personal. I pray for strength. I pray for wisdom. I pray for our troops in harm's way. I pray for my family. I pray for my little girls."
Wanna guess who said that Dave? ;) ;D
Wisdom?... Hmm... guess prayer's not working for him either! ;)
Oh no, as with all his absolute failures he might try harder... Warn the goats!
Sorry, back to airplanes... ;)
We're not that far from the cave. A few nerds used science to make the whole energy thing easy for the masses & yet we still have people who believe that sacrificing goats to fix a mechanical problem is a solution.
Well, I sure am glad those goats were there for sacrificing! Phewwwww now all will be well with the airlines and their planes, Thanks gods! >:( >:( >:(
I'm an atheist too. So, stuff like this is completely bizarre to me. But, then praying in general is bizarre to me. I'm too logical to believe in any of it.
I think every religion - no matter how peaceful - has animal sacrifice in it. Perhaps with the exception of Buddhism - though, I see that more as a philosophy than religion. Or had animal sacrifice in it at some point or another. For some reason, that's a big thing in various religions.
This type of stuff actually bothers me far, far, far less than factory farming or feedlots. If someone wants to sacrifice his goat to some god ... eh, that's a cultural and religious thing. Very personal. It's like cannibalism in primitive tribes - eating the heart of one's enemy to gain their power. Eating part of one's dead family member to honor them. Who am I to tell them to stop? If they enjoy living wild in jungles, dealing with tribes, eating their hearts, etc. ... it's no skin off my back.
It's a very difficult thing, IMO, to impose on another's cultural or religious beliefs. Culture is such a personal and deep part of many people. Unless their fanaticism hurts others - like suicide bombers - my philosophy is to leave others to their own devices in terms of their religion and culture.
It's a very difficult thing, IMO, to impose on another's cultural or religious beliefs. Culture is such a personal and deep part of many people. Unless their fanaticism hurts others - like suicide bombers - my philosophy is to leave others to their own devices in terms of their religion and culture.
Hmmm... but technically their fanaticism does hurt others. It hurts goats.
Prayer does hurt people sometimes... when it infringes on someone else's right or just gives someone reason not to do something else they see as nessecary.
I love it when people tell me they'll pray for my husband.
I offer that if they like they may do that (positive thoughts are always welcome), but if they really care for him and want to help their time might be better spent and more effective for more people by writing their congressmen.
Do both. Pray and write. That's fine.
But one is not a replacement for the other.
Just like in Nepal I hope they CHECKED the planes and didn't leaving the plane's 'healing' to the goats death alone!
Hmmm... but technically their fanaticism does hurt others. It hurts goats.
Except that is only your opinion, from the point of view of a vegan who has compassion for animals and maybe even believes in animal rights. (I don't know - just guessing.)
From their point of view, animals do not have rights, and are there to be owned by man. Animal sacrifice is written into their religion - ordained by their god.
They believe in their point of view, just as much as you believe in yours.
I'm an atheist so I don't understand any part of religion - from prayer to worship to animal sacrifice. But, I wouldn't ever want to infringe on someone else's culture or religion. Just as I wouldn't go to a tribe, living primitively in the jungle, and start advocating veganism. Culturally and religiously that's over their head, incomprehensible. Why should I impose my own belief on theirs? Because I'm right? Well, they are too in their own culture.
While I completely agree with you and feel bad for the goats. I also have a firm belief in freedom of religion, freedom of culture. My choice of veganism, my desire for humane and compassionate treatment of animals will never extend to 100% of the world. If only because explaining, to a tribe living in the Amazon, why they should give up their meat will get one nowhere. And, in truth, religion and culture is the least harmful in terms of animals. It's the food industry, the breeding industry that is the biggest offender.
"...My faith is a very, it's very personal. I pray for strength. I pray for wisdom. I pray for our troops in harm's way. I pray for my family. I pray for my little girls."
Wanna guess who said that Dave? ;) ;D
Wisdom?... Hmm... guess prayer's not working for him either! ;)
Oh no, as with all his absolute failures he might try harder... Warn the goats!
Sorry, back to airplanes... ;)
....lol.
"...My faith is a very, it's very personal. I pray for strength. I pray for wisdom. I pray for our troops in harm's way. I pray for my family. I pray for my little girls."
Wanna guess who said that Dave? ;) ;D
Wisdom?... Hmm... guess prayer's not working for him either! ;)
Oh no, as with all his absolute failures he might try harder... Warn the goats!
I was going to post him as my "hero" under that thread! :o ::) :D ;D
Hmmm... but technically their fanaticism does hurt others. It hurts goats.
Except that is only your opinion, from the point of view of a vegan who has compassion for animals and maybe even believes in animal rights. (I don't know - just guessing.)
From their point of view, animals do not have rights, and are there to be owned by man. Animal sacrifice is written into their religion - ordained by their god.
They believe in their point of view, just as much as you believe in yours.
Women were also owned by man.
So were Africans at one point in time.
Does this mean humanitarian movements and teaching should be excluded from countries that still treat women as property? Because it is the way they do things? Because it is their religion?
Current day: Regardless of religious freedom human sacrifice would not be tolerated.
So, why is animal sacrifice okay?
I think that's the entire point.
When people, if people, make a human-animal connection it seems less logical to allow ownership and subsequent killing of a being (woman, African or goat) for any reason: food, sacrifice, or whatever.
For the record, if you look at my past posts I'm one of the least animal rights-y vegans on this board. ;) I was just being the devil's advocate here. :)
This type of stuff actually bothers me far, far, far less than factory farming or feedlots. If someone wants to sacrifice his goat to some god ... eh, that's a cultural and religious thing. Very personal. It's like cannibalism in primitive tribes - eating the heart of one's enemy to gain their power. Eating part of one's dead family member to honor them. Who am I to tell them to stop? If they enjoy living wild in jungles, dealing with tribes, eating their hearts, etc. ... it's no skin off my back.
It's a very difficult thing, IMO, to impose on another's cultural or religious beliefs. Culture is such a personal and deep part of many people. Unless their fanaticism hurts others - like suicide bombers - my philosophy is to leave others to their own devices in terms of their religion and culture.
I agree with you sacrificing an animal as part of religious practice in my opinion is more acceptable than slicing and ripping apart an animal in a factory for the sole purpose of human consumption. I am a religious person and I have seen the power of prayer and rituals work miracles so I really see no problem with that. I have Hmong friends who sacrifice and butcher pigs in their yard for special occasions, of course I would never partake but I am fascinated about learning about cultural practices. I think that some of these statements that people are making are completely eurocentric and perfect examples of cultural imperialism at work. Especially the way the western media has used this article to create a greater distance between the west and the rest. Just my opinion.
Women were also owned by man.
So were Africans at one point in time.
Does this mean humanitarian movements and teaching should be excluded from countries that still treat women as property? Because it is the way they do things? Because it is their religion?
Current day: Regardless of religious freedom human sacrifice would not be tolerated.
So, why is animal sacrifice okay?
I think that's the entire point.
When people, if people, make a human-animal connection it seems less logical to allow ownership and subsequent killing of a being (woman, African or goat) for any reason: food, sacrifice, or whatever.
Well, I can tell you why I think the two are very different. But, I'm a biologist and my point of view won't be popular around here, lol. Also, I went vegan for health and ecological reasons.
Do I have a problem with slavery and owning other humans? Yes. That is a rights violation. I said in my first post that freedom of religion is good, so long as it does not violate the rights of others.
The question is then, do I believe animals have the SAME rights as homo sapiens. In order to answer that logically, I have to ask - do animals understand, consciously our concept of "rights" or are humans placing their own emotions and concepts onto another species? Can these other species understand what benefits and responsibilities they receive if granted those rights? Can they fulfill those responsibilities?
The answers to those questions will determine how we view animal sacrifice as part of religion or one's culture. They're just rhetorical, by the way, I'm not asking - just showing my thought process. :)
Again, I don't think these Hindus are the problem. Especially, since their diet is mainly grains and vegetables. Meat and eggs are considered a "treat." Not something eaten everyday. Their impact is very tiny, non-existant ecologically compared to all the factory farms and feedlots. Heck, it's nothing compared to next door in India and their leather industry. That's why I can't be bothered by something so personal as religion or culture. I'm not going to go in and tell them how to practice their religion or culture, nor will I judge. I do think these types of articles are written in a way that practically makes fun of these people. Does it seem silly to us that they sacrifice these goats? Probably so. But, then, I'm sure it seems silly to the Hindus to worship someone nailed to a cross (or insert other religion/culture of choice). Who is right? Culturally, there is no "we're right, you're wrong."
Again, I don't think these Hindus are the problem. Especially, since their diet is mainly grains and vegetables. Meat and eggs are considered a "treat." Not something eaten everyday. Their impact is very tiny, non-existant ecologically compared to all the factory farms and feedlots. Heck, it's nothing compared to next door in India and their leather industry. That's why I can't be bothered by something so personal as religion or culture. I'm not going to go in and tell them how to practice their religion or culture, nor will I judge. I do think these types of articles are written in a way that practically makes fun of these people. Does it seem silly to us that they sacrifice these goats? Probably so. But, then, I'm sure it seems silly to the Hindus to worship someone nailed to a cross (or insert other religion/culture of choice). Who is right? Culturally, there is no "we're right, you're wrong."
Well said