McDonald's rewards on kids' report cards?
This is really getting under my skin for some reason. I'm not a parent, but I'm frustrated that this is even happening...
One of the local school districts has accepted happy meal coupons as a reward for kids earning good grades, and it's blatantly advertised on the kids' report cards. Check out the article: http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/education/orl-mcgrades0607dec06,0,5067134.story?coll=orl_tab01_layout
I shouldn't have started reading the comments section that follows, because I'm now feeling annoyed at the ignorance of some of my community's lesser members (they are in my opinion, anyway). Just sharing because I have a feeling the majority of the VW community might be on my side, which is in full support of the protesting mother.
If I had a child in school, I'd be joining the conscious mother and helping her fight her battle.
I mean, what would you do?
Are you saying it's always bribery and wrong to reward children? Because that's what I"m getting from this. That argument isn't true and just doesn't make sense. People are rewarded in a variety of ways throughout their lives for doing "good". Just because you don't agree with the type of reward doesn't make the practice wrong.
The point is that it's unethical to bribe children with anything to get them to do what you want.
I guess people do use bribery as a means to get what they want, but that doesn't mean that I think that it's right. I'm not saying rewarding children is wrong, it's really great to give something good to a child to show them that you appreciate them and what they are doing and that you are proud of them. I just don't see what McDonald's is doing is a reward. It looks like bribing. As in - "you know that if you do well you're gonna get these McDonald's coups". Not exactly the same thing as "you did well, now we get to go out to dinner!"
I would like to challenge you on your reward statement - asking if you yourself would really like to go to work each day (mostly) for the learning experience and some (often weak form of) "recognition"? Can you really tell me/ us that you prefer to go to work and not get paid? Ev'n if such is the case, why would someone expect children to work without receiving some reward(s)?
Well, I chose a work/profession that I love. It's not work, it's a passion. I would do what I do for free because I LOVE it. It's not even work for me. It is personally fulfilling to me and makes me happy to do it. I always tell everyone to go for the passion when choosing a profession. Being stuck doing something one dislikes for most of one's life is torture, in my opinion. Passion should be what it's all about.
We all have to make money somehow, we might as well do it through our passion. Within my chosen profession, the more successful I become, the more time I put into it, the more energy, the more effort, etc., the more I get rewarded. With money and with being able to pursue, every single day, that which I love.
In high school and college the incentive and reward for me was the grade, the knowledge, and the fact that being at the top of my class would open more doors for me after graduation. It worked, too. In grade school, I enjoyed the learning process. My reward was the ability to write, the ability to read, and the doors those two abilities opened for me. I was fortunate in that both of my parents were professors and they made learning highly enjoyable for me.
I went to a public school until 4th grade and then a private school later on. Both were horribly boring experiences. But, thankfully, I hung onto my passion for learning largely due to my parents.
I think for grade school, and any other school .... the reward should be the end outcome. The experience, the knowledge gained, and the grade. Any "extra" rewards, if any, should be left up to the parents.
Well, like I said, I'm pro homeschooling or a Waldorf private school. Chances are good my child would never step in any other school. But, if for some bizarre reason the Waldorf school decided to stick such incentives in as fast food ... I'd be looking for another school. Just because I think it's more than just fast food as a reward. I think it shows the general mentality of the school. That they don't want to inspire a thirst for knowledge in kids. They want to pound facts into them and reward them for memorization.
I'm one of the few, perhaps, that think school is not there to teach kids facts. Anyone, at any time, can open a book or google and learn all the facts in the world. What they can't learn, though, is HOW to think analytically, how to think critically, how to question, how to be aware, how to be passionate, etc. School should be there to inspire the desire and thirst for knowledge, to foster thinking, consciousness, awareness, questioning, and logical thinking. Programs should cater to the individual child and his/her interests. Hence why I really like Waldorf or Monetessori education. It's the closest to what I view as the "ideal" situation.
Offering things like fast food ... to me it's like saying "memorize this, and you'll get a burger." Which really means, in my interpretation, "there is no need to think, just memorize what we teach you, and you'll be rewarded."
Of course, I'm also one of those people who think we should do away with grades until University. You want to prove yourself in school ... prove that you can think critically. You either pass to the next year, or you don't. Then, at university, via a grading system, prove how much ability you have in your chosen field.
I js' got done writing three posts for this thread. They vanished! Can somebody tell me if they can be retrieved?
If I wasn't a vegan I don't know if I would have such patience for my computer issues - fret, fume - fret, fume... But I guess I could be thankful that it has stayed on for longer than it has in maybe two to three weeks.....
Note to self (and others who may not know); do not click the "back" button after writing a post!!! (Although 2x thereafter I pressed the "Post" button yet still the messages vanished! Any advice/suggestions/hints/? anybody???)
A good musical
and lyrical introduction after trying to post for _____ times:
I'm a dum-dum,... I'm a dum dum dummmmmmmmmmmmmb!!!
.....In response to hiimselki - (reply #17), my guess about the Pizza Hut reading program would be that the books themselves were not rewarding - (yes?)
There was an incident (I believe) here in Iowa in which a power company (if you can believe it!) wanted the community to use less energy (I would assume there was some crisis?!). They rewarded people with money and/or other incentives, and a significant # of people complied for maybe a month or two - after which the reward was no longer offered. The people though, spurred on by reward, became accustomed to conserving, and continued thereon, with ease, without basically any other reward other than satisfaction, achievement,... and a 25% (+ or -) savings on their power bills!
I believe that there may have been more details/information on my lost/vanished post.
Might as well send this out for the time being. After I click, is it going to stick? What happened to my message that vanished at 9:46???
As I get closer to trying to see if THIS message will be posted, I wonder what theme might be fitting for a trying moment as this... If anyone is suggesting or singing "Are You Smarter Than A Fifth Grader?" - you don't have to do it - - I already beat you to it! :P
I disagree with this reward program because it undermines the struggle to teach kids how to eat in a healthy manner and because it gets into the whole rewarding good behaviour with food which I think is a slippery slope. One the other hand I think that rewards can be a positive and even necessary part of education. As a personal example, my folks couldn't convince me to read until they set up a reward system for me where I got a small present (think stickers or pencils etc) for every 10 books I read and a big prize (like books and markers etc) for every 100 books. That system motivated me to learn, I became a better reader, grew to like reading for its own sake and to this day I'm an avid bookworm.
I'm just going to throw this out there.
When I was a kid I LOVED rewards. I excelled in school because I was competitive and wanted to be on top much more than I was passionate about memorizing the times table in fourth grade. I liked getting rewards. I still do. I excel anyway, but rewards rock. When I was a kid, it might have been McD chicken nuggets or a puzzle book for not driving my mom crazy when we went to the city. Now it's something like being named Employee of the Month. Neither means much to me, but they totally rock anyway. I don't think that an occasional coupon for a hamburger instills unhealthy lifetime eating habits. I think it's the daily family food routine that counts the most.
In response to reply #22 from Fee, like stated before, I agree that it would be better to have the reward come from a more ethical source, but McDonald's is the one that stepped up in this instance. If no other veg* restaurants/organizations - etc matches or follows this, what does that say about the veg* community? Y'know, if you want to have the biggest house on the block - instead of striking your neighbor's house down - build up your own - yes?
And still, in my opionion, I find it quite alright to put a carrot before a kid's nose so they can get (re)inspired and/or also go that extra mile to discover more of what they are made of - similar to you and/or other adults receiving bonuses at work, yes?
ecstatic: i like your ideas! do you ever think of just starting your own school/homeschool program? because i do, and i would want you to be a part of it, at least from the little things ive read here. YEAH!
I just thought I would add my thoughts on this... I am working towards my master's in early childhood education and so I guess I can only speak on those children from birth to age 8, but in my studies I have found that extrinsic rewards such as this are generally frowned upon in the field. Ecstatic said, "The reward should be knowledge itself and the grade. Schools should inspire the desire to learn." I agree. I think it is the duty of teachers to foster a love of learning in young children. Children should want to learn and get good grades because it is fun and interesting in and of itself. Of course, this is not going to work for all children and some children might need some extra motivation, but shouldn't that motivation also be something that is beneficial to the child? An educational movie? Extra yard time? Special time with family? These are just some of the rewards offered in my classroom when we feel that the children have done an extra super job. McDonald's just does not seem all that beneficial.
Also, I just thought I would note that the NAEYC points out in their position statement on Developmentally Appropriate Practice:
Early experiences can also have delayed effects, either positive
or negative, on subsequent development. For instance, some
evidence suggests that reliance on extrinsic rewards (such as
candy or money) to shape children’s behavior, a strategy that can
be very effective in the short term, under certain circumstances
lessens children’s intrinsic motivation to engage in the rewarded
behavior in the long term (Dweck 1986; Kohn 1993). For
example, paying children to read books may over time undermine
their desire to read for their own enjoyment and edification.
Hmm... I don't see why the reward has to be food to begin with; there are other rewards kids will gladly take. when i was in elementary school, everyone (except me) LOVED the goosebumps books. it seems like they could do something like this (reward them with something they like that isn't deleterious to their health or their education). plus, it's also something that poorer families might not be able to get for their children, and it's more valuable than a single meal at mcdonalds (though i suppose goosebumps or harry potter or whatever books are more expensive that rainforest-burning burgers, huh?).
i always did well in school, but i liked the rewards too. i think our school had some sort of program where, if you read 10 (extracurricular) books in the school year, you'd get a coupon for a personal pizza from pizza hut. then they got cheap and started giving us bookmarks, but i went for that too!
I just thought I would add my thoughts on this... I am working towards my master's in early childhood education and so I guess I can only speak on those children from birth to age 8, but in my studies I have found that extrinsic rewards such as this are generally frowned upon in the field. Ecstatic said, "The reward should be knowledge itself and the grade. Schools should inspire the desire to learn." I agree. I think it is the duty of teachers to foster a love of learning in young children. Children should want to learn and get good grades because it is fun and interesting in and of itself. Of course, this is not going to work for all children and some children might need some extra motivation, but shouldn't that motivation also be something that is beneficial to the child? An educational movie? Extra yard time? Special time with family? These are just some of the rewards offered in my classroom when we feel that the children have done an extra super job. McDonald's just does not seem all that beneficial.
Also, I just thought I would note that the NAEYC points out in their position statement on Developmentally Appropriate Practice:
Early experiences can also have delayed effects, either positive
or negative, on subsequent development. For instance, some
evidence suggests that reliance on extrinsic rewards (such as
candy or money) to shape children’s behavior, a strategy that can
be very effective in the short term, under certain circumstances
lessens children’s intrinsic motivation to engage in the rewarded
behavior in the long term (Dweck 1986; Kohn 1993). For
example, paying children to read books may over time undermine
their desire to read for their own enjoyment and edification.
thats what i learned while getting my ed psych minor. unfortunately, i get to teaching in a public school, and the kids lives are run on rewards and prizes!!! insane!!
thats what i learned while getting my ed psych minor. unfortunately, i get to teaching in a public school, and the kids lives are run on rewards and prizes!!! insane!!
Shhhhh! Don't tell me that! I would like to keep my idealistic point of view for just a little longer, at least until the end of this final semester!
Also, I just thought I would note that the NAEYC points out in their position statement on Developmentally Appropriate Practice:
rewards (such as
candy or money) to shape children’s behavior, a strategy that can
be very effective in the short term, under certain circumstances
lessens children’s intrinsic motivation to engage in the rewarded
behavior in the long term (Dweck 1986; Kohn 1993). For
example, paying children to read books may over time undermine
their desire to read for their own enjoyment and edification.
Exactly my feelings on the "treat system" of rewarding your dog when obedience training. You should have a relationship that makes your dog want to obey you to please you, not because a snack is coming. I have sucessfully trained several large "dangerous breed" dogs without a single Snausage. The approval in the voice, the pats, the happiness should be enough. And can be.
AND (lest you think this is totally OT) I learned to read at the age of 3, was allowed into the adult floor of the local library at the age of 8, and recieved my first copy of Shakespeare's Complete Works for Christmas at age 12. Which I read until it literally fell to pieces---twice. I had it rebound and regretfully tossed it last yr as the pages were too brittle to justify the expense of rebinding vs a new copy.
And no one took me to McDonald's until I was in my teens. My DH won't even go in, not because he's a veg*n but because he has taste. ;D
I came across an article called "Study: Kids will eat healthy school food"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-11-25-school-lunch_N.htm
I came across an article called "Study: Kids will eat healthy school food"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2007-11-25-school-lunch_N.htm
they just have to cook the food well. our school used to have spinach and rice, but it was taken off the menu because no one ate it. they just steamed the spinach and rice. they even put jello in the applesauce. ewww. and theres a piece of dessert every day, whether its a piece of cake, a cookie or a brownie. of course the kids eat that first, then the hamburger or hot dog or chili dog and then nibble on some veggies until they're full. also. at our school, if the kids aren't full from one plate, they get a second one for free!!!! this one is shocking to me. not good.
Here is a short video about how one school changed their lunch menu:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_rph4T9MA4
The National School Lunch Act, passed back in 1946, is mentioned in this video:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_School_Lunch_Act
arent we all so idealistic!!! i teach in an inner city impoverished neighborhood- special education grades 6-8. now sure most of our school population is a tad bit overweight however, their families do indeed want the best for their children educationally and/or nutritionally! saying that- our kids are fed by convienance; whats easy to prepare, can be obtained within walking distance, and most importantly...cheap. it is NOT cheaper to buy fresh foods for a family of 6 while trying to make ends meet on a severly fixed income. these families do what they can for their children. it is much more economical to buy some white rice, some canned foods and some meat on sale. it is filling, tasty (to most in this area), and it is cheap. they really cant afford to logically think about the freshness of the foods and how meat, dairy and other unhealthy foods may affect their children down the road. they have to live for the day and concentrate on keeping a roof over their babies heads and fending off drugs, violence, and other depressive symptoms of urban life.
when my school give away food freebies, the kids love it!!! the parents love it and it works!!! not many of them can afford to treat their kids to a happy meal and i say if it makes a kid happy for even a minute then it IS worth it! sometimes you have to find happiness where it is presented. macdonalds tossed a literal bone and all i can say is thanks to macdonalds for temporarily alleviating the burdens of being a child in a severly depressed area! IF these whole food companies and do gooders were so concerned with the welfare of our children, then i say put your f-in money where your mouth is and do something about it!!!!!!!
veronica
when my school give away food freebies, the kids love it!!! the parents love it and it works!!! not many of them can afford to treat their kids to a happy meal and i say if it makes a kid happy for even a minute then it IS worth it!
Hmmm. Well, I definitely understand the sentiment behind what you're saying... But, most kids don't know what's good for them in terms of food & health. Of course a lot of them are going to be happy with receiving a McDonald's coupon. Does that mean they should be getting them? In my opinion, the answer is no. It is up to us as adults to stand up for their best interests when they don't yet have the knowledge to do so themselves. I think they enjoy the reward, and it wouldn't mean any less if they got a book instead of a McDonald's coupon; it's the fact that their achievements are being recognized & they are getting a "treat" for them that matters to the kids (I think).
And I would say it is definitely NOT worth it just because it makes the kid happy for a minute. It is contributing to setting them up for a lifetime of unhealthy eating, and seeing crap food as a reward & as a good, fun treat. >:(
And I would say it is definitely NOT worth it just because it makes the kid happy for a minute. It is contributing to setting them up for a lifetime of unhealthy eating, and seeing crap food as a reward & as a good, fun treat. >:(
I agree, there are plenty of things that give momentary pleasure, but that doesn't make them good rewards.
Honestly this is nothing about McDonald's stepping up to the plate. There is no standard, it's not a child's right to be rewarded. McDonald's sees a golden marketing opportunity and they found a loophole that would allow them to take advantage. If they were worried about financial situations of these kids, they'd hand out free food to everyone in need. If they wanted to, the could hand out the little plastic toys in in their happy meals. If McDonald's was concerned with education, they'd throw the money that they're spending in this program towards DONATIONS of books and computers for the school.
McDonald's is not a company in need - they have marketing people that understand exactly what they're doing. If they get them while their young - they can latch on to a customer that spends their lives going to McDonald's. If they can portray themselves as being the reward for children, they know that kids will continue to beg their parents to go there.
Whether or not it is more costly to eat fast food or eat vegan is a different thread entirely, but the fact that most of us are going to be here a long time really weighs in. One can't just say "McDonald's costs a dollar, beans and rice costs two, I'll eat McDonalds every day and have more money" there are more factors than what's coming out of your wallet in the short term.
Like I said before, I don't think that any company should be contributing to this reward system - health food or otherwise because I think it sends kids the wrong message about education. But even still, one can easily see what a huge corporation McDonald's is in comparison to competitors. If you expect Whole Foods to start doing similar things, expect either some unethical practices or higher prices.
^ APPLAUSE! :D ^
(That's my round of applause. ::)) So perfectly well-said, Fee!
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