Well this can't be good:

(Israel Army may have killed aid workers)
http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/01/08/israel.gaza/index.html

And it gets me thinking about how many people the U.S. has probably "allegedly" or "accidentally" killed that we never heard about.  Since, you know, the Israeli army is not really taking responsibility for this; they have to "look into it".  Granted, the Hamas likely do the same, but *sigh*.... responsibility, people!  If you're going to be shooting big guns and bombing and stuff, at least own it.

eta: This is what I have learned: WAR IS DUMB. 

me too.  when the problem goes back hundereds of years.... its hard to figure out what the initial cause was.

I was listening to npr yesterday to hear about Israeli soldiers placing about 100 people (men women and children) into a house, kept them there, then shelling it a week later.

Yeah, I think that's the hardest part- this stems from such a long history.

Also, we hear such skewed versions of what happens there. For example, I'd not heard the above mentioned example that Kelsi provided, but I heard that the Hamas were doing the same sort of things (using "human shields" as one article put it... and I am looking but cannot find the article). 

And also in response to the U.S. not voting-- it's sort of like what nmpixie and I have been tossing around-- I mean, the U.S. would be hypocritical to tell Israel to stop doing what they're doing, because we (the U.S.) are guilty of the same thing.

I don't understand the sympathy towards Israel... Israel has illegally been occupying Palestine's land since post WW2 as the dumping ground for all the Jews and Jews continue to move there or make pilgrimages there. It's like if some strangers broke into your house and started fighting you and demanding they take your house.... Palestine belongs to .... Palestinians. It's pretty simple.

I agree and disagree.  Israel was carved out of Palestine, which was as successful as splitting India and Pakistan and leaving Muslim-dominant Kashmir on the India side because the ruler of the area was Hindu.  It's ignorant to do that and not anticipate generations of fighting.

This is why I disagree with it being simple:  Jewish people had been immigrating back to Palestine since the late 1800s.  Great Britain got Palestine from Turkey at the end of WWI, in the late 1910s.  In the early 1920s, G.B. split a quarter of the land off for Jewish land.  Since those types of things never go well, there was subsequent fighting.

The land didn't become "Israel" until the late 1940s.  When they formed their own state, they were invaded by neighboring countries.  (Some Muslims left Israel at that time.  There's a dispute about whether they left to avoid the fighting and were planning to return once there was a victory over Israel, or whether Israel expelled them.  Some Muslims stayed and became Israeli citizens.)  At the end of their battle for independence, the Jewish-dominant part of Palestine was "Israel" and the Muslim-dominant part of Palestine became "Jordan."

Not decades, centuries. As I said before, it all started back in the time of Genesis. You can say many things about politics in that area of the world, but "simple" is not one of them.

And it's not really a matter of a race war but a class war-- the elite vs. everyone else-- the 'commoners'. The elite is pretty much in control of everything except our souls (yet)...

Dalida if you want to add to a post you can use the modify button in the upper right corner.  I wasn't sure if you realized that since you're new.

Thanks mdvegan :)

Yes, I understand, nmp, and this is going to sound so juvenile, but Hamas started the most recent attacks, no? I believe there was a cease-fire prior to the December 24th attacks/bombings?  It is frustrating, also, that Hamas and Fatah are not united as a country for the Palestinians.

I don't understand why people are blaming the Israeli's for this whole thing-- is it because they are "winning" (no one is really "winning" here, as people are dying and I don't see a point in that whatever)?  Is it because they appear to be "stronger"?  They were bombed, they fought back. This has been going on for a long time, on and off.

We, as the United States, have killed many Iraqis... pretty much because we don't agree with their government, no? I mean, we've called it all sorts of other things; "weapons of mass destruction", said it was Saddam Hussein, blah blah blah, but here we are years later waiting for them to set up a Democratic government before we leave. And they weren't even the ones that attacked us on 9/11-- what are we doing there?!

Sorry for the tangent. I'd also like to say that I will be the first to admit that I do not know everything or even a lot about this subject and have only recently been following it the past few months. I'd like to know, in a nice and calm manner, why it is that people tend to blame Israel?  As I said before, and will continue to say and maintain, I respect any/everyone's position on this issue and in no way mean to offend.  Also, if I say something that is incorrect, please forgive my mistake-- like I said, I do not pretend to know everything.

I can't even wrap my head around it, either. But from what I know and can understand, I don't even see the conflict there ever resolved. It's just too deep. And yes, both parties are incredibly stubborn and it makes me furious that they are both so quick to use arms, it's ridiculous! But then again, I grew up in a peaceful area of the world, conflicts like this are beyond my field of comprehension. For me, it's easy to say, but why can't they just talk and work it out? But these people have been growing up hating their neighbour with a passion. This makes me so sad and useless.

I just bought the book "O Jerusalem" written by Larry Collins and Dominique Lapierre, which is, apparently and according to some coworkers of mine, the best book ever written on the question. It was published in 1972, and is written as if if were a novel, I'll tell you more about it when I'll get to read it.