House ethanol bill--and how is this bad?
Admittedly, I'm not very well-versed in the pros and cons of biofuel or other energy sources, but I can not figure out what is so bad about this biofuel bill that the House passed recently. I like the way the following article says that the increased use of biofuels/ethanol will cause "food" costs to rise. Yeah...meat and dairy prices! And that is bad...how? Oh, and the price of corn will be driven up...which affects ranchers. Correct me if I'm wrong...but don't we have a ridiculous surplus of corn anyway because of all the subsidies given to farmers...which is one of the reasons why wonderful high fructose corn syrup seems to be in EVERY American food product these days (whereas elsewhere, like in Europe, they use normal sugar)?
Here are the "consequences" of producing and using more biofuels...
Decrease in greenhouse gases, decrease in oil dependecy, meat and egg prices go up, prices go up for cattle ranchers, the surplus of corn gets used for something beneficial to the planet and something other than high fructose corn syrup (of which those products go up in price as well).
Ummmm....where's the "trade-off" they are talking about?
http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/07/news/economy/biofuels/index.htm?cnn=yes
Problems with ethanol...there's quite a few, actually, not the least of which is a decreased food supply for hungry people.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/world/29food.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/E/Ethanol&oref=slogin
Problems with ethanol...there's quite a few, actually, not the least of which is a decreased food supply for hungry people.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/29/world/29food.html?_r=1&n=Top/Reference/Times%20Topics/Subjects/E/Ethanol&oref=slogin
Hmmmm. Yeah, like I said I'm not totally up on all the ins and outs of biofuels. But, with my limited knowledge, it seems to me, all this surplus of corn that is going into making shit like high fructose corn syrup could be going to biofuel instead...not necessarily taking space away from growing other crops. And if, like the article says, we give aid to other countries by buying food in their own countries...instead of shipping them overseas (which seems like a bad idea anyway, in terms of fresh, healthy food)...seems like that would solve at least part of the problem.
What are the other problems with ethanol? Maybe there is a better solution than ethanol? Hydrogen? The technology for that doesn't seem to be viable for everyone at this point, no? (I am probably showing how ignorant I am on this subject...maybe you vegwebbers can clue me in.... :) I'd like to learn more.)
From what I understand ethonal is cost counter-productive, as in it costs a lot to make and even though it burns cleaner the process to make it is high on the carbon foot print scale. It's been a pretty big deal here in Michigan--but we still only have like 3 ethanlo stations in the whole state--and we grow corn everywhere--*blerg* Personally I think we should put more research into fuel cells and hydrogen--but I'm not super versed in this field either.
http://i177.photobucket.com/albums/w202/Capture79/silly/EthanolCartoon-1BMP.jpg
let me start by saying that I am not pro-ethanol, I am pro-renewable resources. I just wanted to include this link to a pro-ethanol site, to expose the other side.
http://whyfiles.org/253ethanol/
I very much agree, Stars, that the increased production of ethanol will decrease the food supply for hungry people. The really sad thing is that there is already enough food in production today to feed every person in the world, albeit on a vegetarian or vegan diet.
I know I've posted about his before, and I would shout it from the roof tops if I could get up there... Frances Moore Lappe wrote an incredible book about the food supply system in the world back in the early 70's called Diet for a New Planet, and updated it in the 80's. She recently has updated the book again now called Hope's Edge: The New Diet for a Small Planet. What does this have to do with ethanol? Well, it explains how our food is produced and where it goes and since ethanol is made from food it explains why using up all that corn for fuel would hurt the comsumable food supply for humans.
Ethanol is not the answer, but it might at least be a transitional fuel source for a society used to using fossil fuels. I believe that better public transit is an essential part of the future of transportation. Also, electric cars, powered up by wind or solar power of course. In Europe cars are already much smaller than in the U.S. As well are single passenger or commuter cars. Of course the cars have to be smaller due to the narrow streets in old towns. Also, not the answer, but diesel fueled cars are very normal in the EU which provide much better gas mileage, with about the same emmisions as regular petrol, ie. our the Ford Focus we drove while living in Wales got the American equivalent of 38 miles per gallon city / 58.8 miles per gallon highway.
I am very happy to see that more car manufacturers are producing hybrids now, and BMW even has a Hydrogen Sedan to be released next year, although it has both a hydrogen tank and a petrol tank.
let me start by saying that I am not pro-ethanol, I am pro-renewable resources. I just wanted to include this link to a pro-ethanol site, to expose the other side.
http://whyfiles.org/253ethanol/
Thank you for posting this. I'm getting a better picture of what the deal is with ethanol. I definitely need to read more...I'm so not informed when it comes to this stuff.
So ethanol is not the ultimate answer. Not when it comes to a total switchover of alternative energy for transportation.
Large cars and public transportation aside, my question is...what is the most efficient, most widely available alternative fuel source at the moment...right now?
Hybrids, though a great alternative, even those that might run completely on electricity, are still using fossil fuels to run the power plant that generates the electricity, no? Is this the best we have at the moment? As far as I know, currently there are no wind/solar powered vehicles.
This hydrogen car by BMW, runs on gasoline or hydrogen. Since there only like 3 hydrogen filling stations currently in America, what do you think owners are going to use to fill their tanks with until 2027 when there will supposedly be a filling station available everywhere?
Anyway...I'll keep reading up on this...
(Incidentally, it's interesting that the article I posted does not touch on the problems of producing ethanol that you guys have pointed out to me...only the problems it will cause in terms of meat/dairy prices for both the consumer and rancher/farmer.)
Plus, (for hybrids) the batteries have not-so-nice heavy metals in them. nickel and cadmium to name some; hopefully everyone's very conscious about how to dispose of them... :-\
I had a chemistry teacher who's an enviromentalist who pretty much laughed at the hybrid car idea and hydrogen fuel cell. The hybrid car for the ultimate source still being fossil fuel combustion and the heavy metals in the battery, and the hydrogen fuel cell, because at least as of then (2006), pretty much the only source you could get the H2 from is... fossil fuel combustion! Though he sent us a neat article about culturing bacteria who produce H2 as a waste producy... bacteria as a solution to the energy problem! pretty cool.
but it seems to me if people really want to continue having the lifestyle they do, we can't have one solution. We don't have enough land to get around on ethanol, and there's only so much hydrogen you can produce from bacteria OR our dwindling supply of fossil fuels. Unless something technologically magical happens (it could.), it looks like we'll have to settle for an integrative method for dealing with the problem.
I'll just keep walking.
Have you guys seen the euro cars that run on compressed air? Now that is cool! These videos are well worth watching, even if you're not into the science of it--justto know this is being done and it is for real!!!
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-A3XHFT5qc
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c
Have you guys seen the euro cars that run on compressed air? Now that is cool! These videos are well worth watching, even if you're not into the science of it--justto know this is being done and it is for real!!!
Part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-A3XHFT5qc&feature=related
Part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq8aZVLpf-c&feature=related
For some reason the videos didn't embed (at least they weren't viewable on my browser), so I hope you don't mind me posting just the links to youtube. That really is interesting, and frustrating at the same time. Frustrating that the technology exists, but isn't being utilized as widely as it should.
The point about the Hydrogen filling stations not being widely available is a good one. I wonder wat BMW has planned to help sell their cars if no one can fill them.
I thought I had seen at BP, some kind of mixed Gasoline, like part Ethanol and part Petrol, but it can only be used in certain cars. However I can't find anything about it on their website. In the UK they have been doing this Target Neutral program. It's mostly just an easy way to buy Carbon Offsets, but at least it is something. I honestly didn't realize they were only doing this in the UK though, until we moved back here that is.
Target Neutral
http://www.bp.com/sectiongenericarticle.do?categoryId=9011548&contentId=7021085
http://www.targetneutral.com/TONIC/index.jsp
My husband wants to convert our Jeep into an electric with one of these kits (eventually):
http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/build-your-own.html
http://www.electric-car-conversion-kits.com/
Anyhow, I'm with FaunaBlues, I'm going to keep walking, as well as combing trips and riding my bike whenever possible (as there is about 10 inches of snow outside right now, although I did see one gungho biker actually pedaling through the snow this morning.)
I read in National Geographic once that ethanol from corn is not feasible because it takes so much fossil fuels to produce--1x-1.3x as much as the energy extracted from it. However, in South America they use sugar cane, which gives maybe 5x as much energy as it takes to produce, when gathered and fermented. The exploitation of cheap labor can't be ignored, however. And it was in National Geographic, so it must be true!