vick's apology
i'm not one to judge vick's sincerity,
the whole situation just makes me sad
so many young boys look up to him--which is why i'm so glad he pointed out that he needs to "grow up"
good for him, really, if he did "find God" through this, again, as a christian myself, i can not pass judgment on his sincerity, but, you don't have to be a christian to be moral, as, the majority on this board are not, and you all by far, are more moral than many of the people i sit next to sunday mornings.
though, he could truly begin to make a "peace offering" by donating some of his excessive money to a humane society of sorts
forgive is a strange term to use with a person we don't know personally, but, would a monetary donation from him make any of you any more willing to "forgive" the acts he committed/funded?
You can't buy forgiveness, or a quiet conscience...but I think he should fund a dog rescue with all the latest and best.
Maybe God will tell him to go veggie?? Now, there's a conversion for you!! ;D ;)
(Item: I also happen to be a Christian. But I have a very inconvenient sense of humour and a pronounced sense of the fitness of things.) ;D ;D
Maybe God will tell him to go veggie??
ha ha! that's funny.
that'd definitely shake things up. :D
Yes. With the kind of money he could donate, I feel pretty sure he could prevent more suffering than he caused through his dogfighting. If he 'balanced the books' that way and was sincerely regretful, I could forgive him. However, he would never donate that much. Even if he were sincerely regretful, I doubt he would come close to, for example, donating the vast majority of his wealth, which is kind of what I would need to see.
I am also trying not to judge the sincerity of his apology but that is really hard for me to do. I say actions speak louder than words. Anyone can apologize but I hope he backs it all up with something.
On a side note, I find this absolutely hilarious: http://www.vickdogchewtoy.com/
It really makes me angry when people apologize in order to bring themselves back inside everyones good graces. "I made a mistake" he says...a mistake that lasted YEARS...he executed dogs who would not fight, he tortured animals...I don't buy any of the bull.....it makes me mad.
I really think he need s to be punished for what he did....after that, he may make a amends by donating just about all of his money to animals related charities. And then he can donate his time by making public speeches about the importance of treating animals with dignity and respect....
THAN I might believe he is sincere.
I doubt Ill ever believe he is really sorry
oh hes sorry for being caught and maybe for doing what he did because he got caught...but I dont think he has any compassion towards animals...and Im sure that applies to humans as well
I gotta say, part of the reason that I could forgive him is that what he's doing doesn't seem worse to me than buying meat or dairy. What's wrong with what Vick did? He caused animal suffering and death for his pleasure and convenience. What do buyers of meat and cheese do? Trade animal suffering for pleasure and convenience. It's not AT ALL clear to me that the dogs suffered more than dairy cows suffer, or more than pigs suffer for pork. In fact, the meat and dairy might be considered worse, since that's such a TRIVIAL pleasure -- the culinary enjoyment of the taste of the animal product. Vick's pleasure, while not really important, was not quite as trivial -- he was making lots of money from what he did.
What Vick did was AWFUL -- INEXCUSABLE -- and morally not really different from buying meat, dairy or eggs that comes from factory farms.
Omnivores tend to have this big disconnect between animals suffering for food and animals suffering for other purposes. As long as it's for food, they assume, it's not a moral issue. Because the animal is going to be eaten, that somehow changes the moral playing field in bizarre ways that make factory farms, which LOOK abhorrent, actually turn out to be okay sorts of things. I don't buy that disconnect. I don't think it matters whether the animals are eaten. What matters is whether we're trading animal suffering and death for trivial pleasure. Vick did that -- and, like most of the population, still does that. The strong reaction of vegans to the Vick thing -- that is, the fact that they react more strongly to Vick than to the average person who eats at MacDonalds -- to me smacks of that same disconnect. But that disconnect is bullsh*t that our culture uses to assuage guilt over its omnivorism. We shouldn't buy it.
So I sort of have to forgive him... after all, I used to be an omnivore.
I doubt Ill ever believe he is really sorry
oh hes sorry for being caught and maybe for doing what he did because he got caught
You are SO RIGHT Adam......you hit the nail on the head! The only thing Vick is truly sorry for is for being caught....
Where did he ever say that he will make it up to the animals?...that he will "donate" one single penny towards animal issues? !
Anyone see Jamie Foxx's interview and see what he had to say.....seems to me he played the "race card" with Vick......and that he only compared his being guilty to people that kill....er...umm....other people....and I always liked Jamie Foxx...... :P
Quote:
“I know that cruelty to animals is bad, but sometimes people shoot people and kill people and don’t get time,” Foxx said. “I think in this situation, he really didn’t know the extent of it, so I always give him the benefit of the doubt.”
it's a cultural thing, I think,” Foxx said. most brothers didn't know that, you know. I used to see dogs fighting in the neighborhood all the time. I didn't know that was Fed time. So, Mike probably just didn't read his handbook on what not to do as a black star.”
Why is it a "cultural, or "black thing" ??????
It's a "moral thing"......Ssssssssoooooooooooo....if Jamie is saying that he didn't know "Fed Time" was involved (with regards to dog fighting).....that it would have been OK?...
Or....am I just reading this wrong?...remember...I AM an IDIOT! :o
-dave
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20414907/
Davedrum, I think Foxx's point fits with what I said above. We have here two different ways of trading animal suffering for pleasure. One is bizarre to most white people. (Foxx seems to be saying it ISNT bizarre to black people, and I'm not sure I'm willing to buy that.) The other is Sunday dinner for white people. There's not, I think, any important moral difference between the two. But people react with horror to what is bizarre to them, even if they've learned to accept -- learned not even to see it -- in other areas. That's my take on why Foxx's point deserves more than to be disregarded as "the race card".
EDIT: Now I think about it, Foxx's point doesn't require that dogfighting isn't bizarre to most black people as it is to most white people. He just needs that dogfighting was part of the culture of the specific neighborhood that Vick grew up in. Which doesn't seem unlikely -- isn't he from Atlanta?
I do not believe his apology was sincere at all since the first person he apologized to was the foodball commisioner! He just wants to kiss ass so he can get his job back and make more money! I think if they allow him to play football again all of his earnings should be given to animal rescue/shelters--he would only be able to live off of his endorsments--good luck finding any more of those!
Davedrum, I think Foxx's point fits with what I said above. We have here two different ways of trading animal suffering for pleasure. One is bizarre to most white people. (Foxx seems to be saying it ISNT bizarre to black people, and I'm not sure I'm willing to buy that.) The other is Sunday dinner for white people. There's not, I think, any important moral difference between the two. But people react with horror to what is bizarre to them, even if they've learned to accept -- learned not even to see it -- in other areas. That's my take on why Foxx's point deserves more than to be disregarded as "the race card".
Celphi,
Hmmmm....being the IDIOT I am :D ....I confess that I'm not following where you are going with this....sorry! :-\
Let me phrase it this way....
If Vick was white (maybe stupid to even say that b/c he's not....but just playing here for a second as many here or in the press have).......do you think Jamie would have made the same statement? OR....(he probably would not have been asked or have mentioned it at all)...maybe it's the INTERVIEWER who is playing the race card by even asking Jamie his thoughts on the issue.... If Jamie was white...would he even have been asked the question...or have been told what was going on?
To me....at times...
It seems the media is playing the "race card" by trying to ask a "baited" question......perhaps it is they looking to once again "divide" people with the "race"issue...maybe one that does not exist in the first place....if not for them......hell....it sells papers...it sells advertising....does it not? ;)
Davedrum -- I don't know about what to say about what Foxx would have done, or what the reporter would have done, if various people had been different colors. Also, I don't really believe in "the race card" -- the phrase seems to me to have little value except as code for disregarding complaints about racism. So I'm not sure how to answer what you're asking. My only point was that Foxx does seem to have a reasonable point. Namely, the point seems to be that people are reacting with horror to this primarily because it is foreign to their culture (rather than because of the immorality of dogfighting).
the point seems to be that people are reacting with horror to this primarily because it is foreign to their culture (rather than because of the immorality of dogfighting).
BOY...you are fast to respond! ;)
Hey...what you are saying makes sense..I can't argue....nor will I try to....
BUT....perhaps like you....I was just brought up thinking differently. Does not make me right...or them wrong....
All I can say is that I don't agree with his statement or his thinking. That's OK....most in this world don't agree with the way I see see things....or with what I say....that's OK as well! ;)
-dave :)
BUT....perhaps like you....I was just brought up thinking differently.
I was, and I absolutely agree that dogfighting is wrong. But I also don't think it's worse than meat or cheese. Which makes me agree with Foxx, if Foxx is saying that people are treating Vick like a leper primarily because of cultural and not moral issues. The difference between Foxx and me, I assume, is that while he thinks neither meat/cheese nor dogfighting is especially bad, I think they are both terrible, but equally so.
I gotta say, part of the reason that I could forgive him is that what he's doing doesn't seem worse to me than buying meat or dairy. What's wrong with what Vick did? He caused animal suffering and death for his pleasure and convenience. What do buyers of meat and cheese do? Trade animal suffering for pleasure and convenience. It's not AT ALL clear to me that the dogs suffered more than dairy cows suffer, or more than pigs suffer for pork. In fact, the meat and dairy might be considered worse, since that's such a TRIVIAL pleasure -- the culinary enjoyment of the taste of the animal product. Vick's pleasure, while not really important, was not quite as trivial -- he was making lots of money from what he did.
What Vick did was AWFUL -- INEXCUSABLE -- and morally not really different from buying meat, dairy or eggs that comes from factory farms.
Omnivores tend to have this big disconnect between animals suffering for food and animals suffering for other purposes. As long as it's for food, they assume, it's not a moral issue. Because the animal is going to be eaten, that somehow changes the moral playing field in bizarre ways that make factory farms, which LOOK abhorrent, actually turn out to be okay sorts of things. I don't buy that disconnect. I don't think it matters whether the animals are eaten. What matters is whether we're trading animal suffering and death for trivial pleasure. Vick did that -- and, like most of the population, still does that. The strong reaction of vegans to the Vick thing -- that is, the fact that they react more strongly to Vick than to the average person who eats at MacDonalds -- to me smacks of that same disconnect. But that disconnect is bullsh*t that our culture uses to assuage guilt over its omnivorism. We shouldn't buy it.
So I sort of have to forgive him... after all, I used to be an omnivore.
Sorry Cephi..... ???
hmmm...I somehow missed this for some reason....maybe I should have read the WHOLE thread first....
forgive me! :P
I ALWAYS have a problem with the animal rights groups that send me info about dogs being slaughtered for food in Korea....(looking to tug at my heart and get a donation..and yeah...I've donated....big time)....yet they seem to have no problem holding a fund raiser at which they serve hot dogs, burgers and chicken.....to me it is THEY that fail to see how what they are doing is just as bad...and just as wrong.
Though you all know I love and rescue many many dogs.....I DO have a BIG problem with the way society thinks dogs and cats are untouchable when it comes to cruelty...and that cows, pigs, and chickens are not. I don't see the difference.
That's just me......
Every cow, pig, chicken, deer, etc....should have the same rights as my dogs......
Who the f*ck decided that farm animals don't deserve the same protection from cruelty as dogs or cats?!....I don't subscribe or agree with that type of thinking....nor will I ever....
-dave
Dave -- I know, it bugs me too. The last time I was home, my brother mentioned what a sick f*** Vick is. I agreed and mentioned that we had a lot of problems with cockfighting up in Kentucky. He said "Oh... that just doesn't seem nearly as bad to me." !!! ??? He's compassionate towards animals for an omnivore, but he's TOTALLY got the disease you mentioned... deeply unequal view of animals... once tried to explain to me that the reason dogs and horses deserve better treatment than cows is because cows have no personality... I think he's giving voice to a common belief there -- as if 99% of the people who believe that have ever even MET a cow!
He's compassionate towards animals for an omnivore, but he's TOTALLY got the disease you mentioned... deeply unequal view of animals... once tried to explain to me that the reason dogs and horses deserve better treatment than cows is because cows have no personality... I think he's giving voice to a common belief there -- as if 99% of the people who believe that have ever even MET a cow!
I know some humans who could fall under that no personality fallacy... does that mean we can abuse them? ;D
j/k!
@ Firefightress...never eat anyone who has no taste!! ;D ;D ;D
@ Firefightress...never eat anyone who has no taste!! ;D ;D ;D
lol ;D Oh yeah, thanks Yabbit! What was I thinking?? ;)
He's full of BS- the only reason he's apologizig is because he got caught.
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