Christian vegans
Posted by lusinw8 on Jul 02, 2007 · Member since Jun 2007 · 12 posts
I realize that this has nothing to do with recipes but most forums here dont anyways so i would like to start a forum on christian thoughts. Please remember that all of us here like for our beliefs of vegism to be respected so keep it respectfull.
I would first like to say that i am very mad that when i typed christian vegans into my search bar the first page it brought up was a wanna be preacher who is so lost in the bible that he calls vegans witches.
I thought the same thing KissMeKate.
Oh I would totally interpret that passage differently. I think it is against our point entirely. That seems to say that the fatted calf is the desired dinner (over the vegetables), but the caliber of the dinner doesn't matter as long as the dinner is eaten with love. Other interpretations of it say "than a juicy steak served with hatred." Not hatred toward the animal, but toward the other diners.
It wouldn't make sense for the analogy to be otherwise, from a literary standpoint. You wouldn't say "Better is a feast served with love than a pittance served with hatred." Of course it is! Here, the fatted calf is the desired feast. That passage portrays greens as the less hearty, less desirable meal. Like saying, "Who needs good food when you have love." When really we know vegan food is quite good.
see my initial thought after reading was, 'better to eat a meal prepared with compassion (veg) than one prepared with cruel intentions (meat)'
Yeah, I think it's commentary about (a) faith in spite of poverty, and (b) choosing love instead of enmity. The steak dinner in that passage is just a contextual detail to indicate a bounty of food/wealth.
I really don't think that animal compassion was the intended interpretation at all. It doesn't resonate with the rest of the chapter and is inconsistent with what we know to be valued as food in those times--in this case, the fattiest steak possible (since people ate as much fatty food as they could get). I think we would be remiss to interpret this passage otherwise and inject our own values into it. Too many people do that.
eta: Another version of the Bible says "Better a bread crust shared in love....." That's the idea.
This was how it was supposed to be but, then Adam and Eve sinned and everything changed. The worl was entended tp be vegan and it will be that way again.
"I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.
Genesis 1:29-31
The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
but dust will be the serpent's food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,"
says the LORD.
Isaiah 65:25
Show this to all who try to tell you that not eating meat is a sin!!
Romans 14 (The Message)
Romans 14
Cultivating Good Relationships
1 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree with—even when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.
2-4For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ's table, wouldn't it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn't eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God's welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.
5Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.
6-9What's important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you're a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It's God we are answerable to—all the way from life to death and everything in between—not each other. That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.
10-12So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty silly—or worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:
"As I live and breathe," God says,
"every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God."
So tend to your knitting. You've got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.
13-14Forget about deciding what's right for each other. Here's what you need to be concerned about: that you don't get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I'm convinced—Jesus convinced me!—that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.
15-16If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don't eat, you're no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don't you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!
17-18God's kingdom isn't a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness' sake. It's what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you'll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.
19-21So let's agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don't drag them down by finding fault. You're certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God's work among you, are you? I said it before and I'll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don't eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.
22-23Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don't impose it on others. You're fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you're not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believe—some days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please them—then you know that you're out of line. If the way you live isn't consistent with what you believe, then it's wrong.
Yeah, I think it's commentary about (a) faith in spite of poverty, and (b) choosing love instead of enmity. The steak dinner in that passage is just a contextual detail to indicate a bounty of food/wealth.
I really don't think that animal compassion was the intended interpretation at all. It doesn't resonate with the rest of the chapter and is inconsistent with what we know to be valued as food in those times--in this case, the fattiest steak possible (since people ate as much fatty food as they could get). I think we would be remiss to interpret this passage otherwise and inject our own values into it. Too many people do that.
eta: Another version of the Bible says "Better a bread crust shared in love....." That's the idea.
ohhhhh....thanks kmk.
That's a good passage larisuena! Good find.
larisuena, did you add the part about prime rib and broccoli in the Roman 14 passage? I was intrigued and didn't remember the reference, so I had to look it up. (I don't have faith, but I think the concept - not application- of faith is neato, so I have the Bible just about memorized.) What version do you use? The phrasing is different than NIV.
I think it's only the MSG version that has those particular words. I don't know much about that version.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/romans/14-6-compare.html
eta: The NIV says:
"He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God."
Basically says the same thing. It's along the lines of, eat what you want, as long as you praise God. That's a good passage to show your family, veganhippie. It's a live-and-let-live type of deal.
larisuena, did you add the part about prime rib and broccoli in the Roman 14 passage? I was intrigued and didn't remember the reference, so I had to look it up. (I don't have faith, but I think the concept - not application- of faith is neato, so I have the Bible just about memorized.) What version do you use? The phrasing is different than NIV.
I used the Message version and I think they are the only version that phrases it like that. I always cross refrence with The NIV or NKJV but, I like the Message because it's easy to get the point of what your reading.
I use to be a Christian, then I was an agnostic for a little while, the I naturally progressed into an atheist as I educated myself more.
And before anyone jumps on my case its not because I am young and all "fuck authority" (many people tell me that's the only reason I am an atheist,and that one day I will mature and see the truth. clearly they don't know me.)
I'm atheist. But I have religion envy. I don't know what that means.
I'm atheist. But I have religion envy. I don't know what that means.
I do. I have it too. It's hard to explain, so I won't try. I've tried to address it by attending services at Unitarian and Unity churches, but they're still always too... church-y for me. (And they interfere with my Sunday yoga class. Is that horrible to say?) Besides, as a textbook agnostic, attending one of anything is too box-y for me.
(Modified for elaboration on the topic:) I'm a lapsed Catholic, and I've often said that growing up Catholic was a big reason why I became vegetarian in the first place. I had trouble hearing about "right to life" without thinking of animals (though many of my strictest Christian non-veg friends make a point to say "human right to life." hmmph.) Also the idea of Lent always got to me. My parents don't like fish much so we were veg on Fridays during lent. And I couldn't understand why eating meat was sometimes ok but sometimes not. And as I looked around, most religions seemed to have some dietary restrictions regarding meat (with Protestantism being the one exception I could think of). So I guess I just thought of vegetarianism as... broadest common denominator.
Simple thinking, maybe, but remember that I was 12 or 13 when this was going through my head.
Now the religion's gone, but the veg*nism stays. It just... doesn't make sense to me to eat meat.
I am an extremely conservative Christian (as in I wear skirts, don't cut my hair, don't own a TV, etc.) and am the only vegan/vegetarian in my church. I think 90% of the church doesn't understand what a vegan is, but this is Central Illinois. I have seen vegetarian menus that have fish in every item here. Not only do the people in my church eat meat, but they eat trash/overly processed foods. As I am trying to get more serious about my health, I see my whole food approach being as much of a conflict that the meat.
I see my veganism as a separate issue from my faith. Biblically, I don't see anything that would indicate that meat consumption is a sin, but I do argue that modern farming methods are. Gluttony is also a sin that most churchs ignore.
Potlucks are awkward as is going out. Usually people will eat my desserts but nothing else. They are used to mixes, velveeta, and frozen dinners. They have no idea what real food is. Lol. It not really my church so much as the area I live in.
I used to get a lot of comments about my daugter. I probably still do behind my back. Really, if people want to gossip they'll find something to talk about regardless of what you do. She is the healthiest kid in the church for the most part. Funny thing is that every time she gets sick I used to get "the talk" but when their kids are sick almost half the time, well diet doesn't matter. Lol. I think some people are starting to see some merit to eating more reall foods, fruits, and vegetables. It amazes me what people don't know. (Such as that a fruit drink is not juice.)
What is clear to me is that God orginally intended for a world without death of any sort, but sin got in the way. He allowed animals to eat other animals as a survival mechanism after the flood which dramatically changed all the ecosystems on the planet. It is also clear that there will be no death in heaven. This to me indicates that vegan living is more "perfect" in some sort of way I can't really logically explain. That said, I am vegan mostly for health issues. Our bodies are the temple of the Lord, and I chose to fill mine with fresh whole foods rather than processed junk and rotting flesh.
The only thing I am concerned about is finding a spouse for myself or my daughter, but I will take a stand for what is right no matter what the cost.
This was how it was supposed to be but, then Adam and Eve sinned and everything changed. The worl was entended tp be vegan and it will be that way again.
"I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.
And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the groundeverything that has the breath of life in itI give every green plant for food." And it was so.
Genesis 1:29-31
The wolf and the lamb will feed together,
and the lion will eat straw like the ox,
but dust will be the serpent's food.
They will neither harm nor destroy
on all my holy mountain,"
says the LORD.
Isaiah 65:25
Show this to all who try to tell you that not eating meat is a sin!!
Romans 14 (The Message)
Romans 14
Cultivating Good Relationships
1 Welcome with open arms fellow believers who don't see things the way you do. And don't jump all over them every time they do or say something you don't agree witheven when it seems that they are strong on opinions but weak in the faith department. Remember, they have their own history to deal with. Treat them gently.
2-4For instance, a person who has been around for a while might well be convinced that he can eat anything on the table, while another, with a different background, might assume he should only be a vegetarian and eat accordingly. But since both are guests at Christ's table, wouldn't it be terribly rude if they fell to criticizing what the other ate or didn't eat? God, after all, invited them both to the table. Do you have any business crossing people off the guest list or interfering with God's welcome? If there are corrections to be made or manners to be learned, God can handle that without your help.
5Or, say, one person thinks that some days should be set aside as holy and another thinks that each day is pretty much like any other. There are good reasons either way. So, each person is free to follow the convictions of conscience.
6-9What's important in all this is that if you keep a holy day, keep it for God's sake; if you eat meat, eat it to the glory of God and thank God for prime rib; if you're a vegetarian, eat vegetables to the glory of God and thank God for broccoli. None of us are permitted to insist on our own way in these matters. It's God we are answerable toall the way from life to death and everything in betweennot each other. That's why Jesus lived and died and then lived again: so that he could be our Master across the entire range of life and death, and free us from the petty tyrannies of each other.
10-12So where does that leave you when you criticize a brother? And where does that leave you when you condescend to a sister? I'd say it leaves you looking pretty sillyor worse. Eventually, we're all going to end up kneeling side by side in the place of judgment, facing God. Your critical and condescending ways aren't going to improve your position there one bit. Read it for yourself in Scripture:
"As I live and breathe," God says,
"every knee will bow before me;
Every tongue will tell the honest truth
that I and only I am God."
So tend to your knitting. You've got your hands full just taking care of your own life before God.
13-14Forget about deciding what's right for each other. Here's what you need to be concerned about: that you don't get in the way of someone else, making life more difficult than it already is. I'm convincedJesus convinced me!that everything as it is in itself is holy. We, of course, by the way we treat it or talk about it, can contaminate it.
15-16If you confuse others by making a big issue over what they eat or don't eat, you're no longer a companion with them in love, are you? These, remember, are persons for whom Christ died. Would you risk sending them to hell over an item in their diet? Don't you dare let a piece of God-blessed food become an occasion of soul-poisoning!
17-18God's kingdom isn't a matter of what you put in your stomach, for goodness' sake. It's what God does with your life as he sets it right, puts it together, and completes it with joy. Your task is to single-mindedly serve Christ. Do that and you'll kill two birds with one stone: pleasing the God above you and proving your worth to the people around you.
19-21So let's agree to use all our energy in getting along with each other. Help others with encouraging words; don't drag them down by finding fault. You're certainly not going to permit an argument over what is served or not served at supper to wreck God's work among you, are you? I said it before and I'll say it again: All food is good, but it can turn bad if you use it badly, if you use it to trip others up and send them sprawling. When you sit down to a meal, your primary concern should not be to feed your own face but to share the life of Jesus. So be sensitive and courteous to the others who are eating. Don't eat or say or do things that might interfere with the free exchange of love.
22-23Cultivate your own relationship with God, but don't impose it on others. You're fortunate if your behavior and your belief are coherent. But if you're not sure, if you notice that you are acting in ways inconsistent with what you believesome days trying to impose your opinions on others, other days just trying to please themthen you know that you're out of line. If the way you live isn't consistent with what you believe, then it's wrong.
AMEN! AND AMEN! SISTER.
lbarte- i have a question. i was watching 18 kids and counting and they, like you, don't watch tv, wear skirts (well, the girls. lol) don't cut their hair, etc. one thing that i was confused about was that they don't dance. i was really confused, and am still wondering why they don't dance. i don't know if you practice that too, but it seems like you'd know more than i do. lol. do you know why they don't dance?
lbarte- i have a question. i was watching 18 kids and counting and they, like you, don't watch tv, wear skirts (well, the girls. lol) don't cut their hair, etc. one thing that i was confused about was that they don't dance. i was really confused, and am still wondering why they don't dance. i don't know if you practice that too, but it seems like you'd know more than i do. lol. do you know why they don't dance?
I don't know their particular religious views, but I grew up Southern Baptist. In which you didn't drink, women wore skirts, and no dancing were the rules. Sounds like they to maybe SBC. If memory serves me right, It's because they think dancing could lead to other things involving a more horizontal position and that most of todays dance moves are WAY to suggestive in nature.
ohhhh. ok. thanks!!
Biblically, I don't see anything that would indicate that meat consumption is a sin, but I do argue that modern farming methods are.
I agree with this exactly! I think God would definitely find factory farming a sin... God's creatures were not intended to be used as machines for gluttonous appetites and profits... I believe if animals could at least enjoy life (and we had no other options) before they were killed that would make a world of difference in God's eyes... The ways we use animals for profit and personal gain is disgusting to say the least... Of course I would never expect someone in say Africa to follow a vegan diet... Shit, eat whatever you can get your hands on!
Gluttony is also a sin that most churchs ignore.
Exactly! I think in America we have sooooo many choices that choosing to be a gluttonous pig is not what God intended... God has weird ways of punishing you for your sins (sex before marriage: STD's and AIDS, drug use: feel like crap, drinking too much: hangover, eating animal foods: clogged arteries and cancer, etc) We have choices now and don't have to live off whatever we can find or what's plentiful.
I used to get a lot of comments about my daughter. I probably still do behind my back. Really, if people want to gossip they'll find something to talk about regardless of what you do.
Seriously church going people gossiping?!? So hypocritical and sinful... Duh... Who are we to judge? That is God's responsibility.
I am a Christian ( Baptist) vegan!
lbarte- i have a question. i was watching 18 kids and counting and they, like you, don't watch tv, wear skirts (well, the girls. lol) don't cut their hair, etc. one thing that i was confused about was that they don't dance. i was really confused, and am still wondering why they don't dance. i don't know if you practice that too, but it seems like you'd know more than i do. lol. do you know why they don't dance?
I don't know their particular religious views, but I grew up Southern Baptist. In which you didn't drink, women wore skirts, and no dancing were the rules. Sounds like they to maybe SBC. If memory serves me right, It's because they think dancing could lead to other things involving a more horizontal position and that most of todays dance moves are WAY to suggestive in nature.
No dancing just seems so foreign to me. I grew up in a Christian home (full gospel, non-denominational) but I was in California where things just aren't as conservative, but am not a Christian myself. Anyway, I can't imagine not being able to dance. Music is wonderful, and dancing is a great form of expression, great exercise and so much fun. To be denied just seems cruel :(
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