Freeganism, and other such things
A carry over discussion that started here: http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=28732.msg335039#msg335039
We've had the label discussion a billion times, but I still don't understand the desire to call oneself something without following the basic principles of that thing. I mean, freegan=free + vegan, does it not?!
That aside, I also think it's silly that we have like 98,987 spin off terms, such as the "meagan." Geez.
I love KMK's elephant thing.
I like supporting the farmers, producers, and other people who work to "do good" in the world, and make it a more sustainable, better, and healthier place.
eta: Also, this "argument"
To everyone that swears they're a diehard vegan - please - i don't think such a thing hardly exists. Do you avoid any/all sports that use animal products, do you avoid airplanes that have leather seats, the list can go and and on...and on.
is so tired and absurd. We live in a freaking NON VEGAN FRIENDLY society. This doesn't mean it's a free for all, be vegan, but do whatever you want. My car might have animal products, oh well, I guess I'll eat some dead raccoon. I mean, give me a break!
Also, I don't think I've ever seen leather seats on an airplane. Must be a first class thing.
KMK i agree that we need serious education reform in this country. as you say, duh! when i said that certain "education" can be disrespectful to communities, i meant that eurocentric education doesn't meet everyones needs and never will. yes i agree that everyone should have access to education, books, food, clothing, money, and resources. but i also think that education should also have cultural relevancy that is above and beyond basic reading, writing, and math skills. having fresh food in your community is just as important, epically when we can see that certain communities don't have equal access, thats where diy comes in very handy and is super empowering. but i think you are getting stuck on specifics such as diy. i'm not talking esty, okay. look at the many kids who drop out because the education that is so important that they learn is not even remotely addressing their specific needs, experiences, cultures? that sucks and that is why i have such an immediate hesitation to the whole reading writing math thing. yes, its important in this society, but if school isn't addressing the specific needs of someones community, then imo it just doesn't work. i can say that from personal experience. it takes a lot more than basic skills to make someones life experience get better. call me a fool if you will.
With all due respect, what you are saying doesn't really align with the research that exists about educational inequity in this country. Kids don't drop out of school because they feel their educators are culturally insensitive, they drop out because there are too many other factors that make school difficult. Things like, being hungry. Broken homes. Not being able to get to school on a daily basis or do their homework because they have no help. But, it is our job as educators to help them succeed in spite of those things. It IS a struggle, no doubt. It takes the life out of me and my students.
I'd also like to add, yes, the students are hungry. Even though we need better ways of fighting hunger, we ALREADY have mandatory education, which is a system we can use to empower students in other ways and aim them toward a life where hunger won't be an issue any more.
I really don't have much respect for anyone who says that reading, writing, and math skills aren't important. I can't even formulate a response to that. Do you not realize that we're talking about, for example, Puerto Rican children who can't even write or read in their own language? Most of my Puerto Rican students can't--they can only speak it. Additionally, things like, not being able to multiply a 2-digit number by a 1-digit? These are UNIVERSAL skills. They transcend culture. It's hard to believe, but it IS THAT DIRE. I'd be happy to get some resources about educational inequity for anyone who is interested.
Also, I can guarantee you that my students do not feel their culture is being undermined, or that teachers are trying to force white culture on them. If anything, it's the other way around--their culture rubs off on me.
Sorry, nothing to do with freeganism, but I had to jump on this because it's probably THE most important issue to me!
I've wanted to dumpster dive TJ's trash. I wish I knew someone who knew their trash schedule. And someone to do it with. It seems like it would be fun to get odwalla juice bottles for free. Like presents are exciting.
after close (9pm) 'til the day shift (or only shift) goes home - 1030-11 pm. I'm assuming it's the same for all TJs, as we were required to toss stuff out the night before expiry date - there should never be stuff with an expiry of the same day there.
At ours, it didn't go straight in the dumpster, just next to it in grocery carts. If it was still there shortly before opening (830-9am), it was tossed out, 'cause they didn't want customers coming by with a bunch of food trash by the side of the store.
I've wanted to dumpster dive TJ's trash. I wish I knew someone who knew their trash schedule. And someone to do it with. It seems like it would be fun to get odwalla juice bottles for free. Like presents are exciting.
after close (9pm) 'til the day shift (or only shift) goes home - 1030-11 pm. I'm assuming it's the same for all TJs, as we were required to toss stuff out the night before expiry date - there should never be stuff with an expiry of the same day there.
At ours, it didn't go straight in the dumpster, just next to it in grocery carts. If it was still there shortly before opening (830-9am), it was tossed out, 'cause they didn't want customers coming by with a bunch of food trash by the side of the store.
It sounds like they encourage people to take it, would you agree? I would be all for this type of dumpster diving
About eating roadkill:
My cousins (and most of my family on my mom's side) live in the middle of nowhere in Michigan along a country road where deer get killed often. They also hunt so eating stuff like deer and rabbits is something they do. I was talking with one of them and she said that one time a deer got hit in front of their house, but it was still pretty..intact. It was dead, but not smushed flat or covered in flies and grossness, so their dad butchered it and stuff and they ate it. I think when the poster who was talking about eating roadkill said that, she was probably talking about something like that, not scraping up a mangled, flattened piece of grossness, which is what most people think of when they think of roadkill.
About eating roadkill:
My cousins (and most of my family on my mom's side) live in the middle of nowhere in Michigan along a country road where deer get killed often. They also hunt so eating stuff like deer and rabbits is something they do. I was talking with one of them and she said that one time a deer got hit in front of their house, but it was still pretty..intact. It was dead, but not smushed flat or covered in flies and grossness, so their dad butchered it and stuff and they ate it. I think when the poster who was talking about eating roadkill said that, she was probably talking about something like that, not scraping up a mangled, flattened piece of grossness, which is what most people think of when they think of roadkill.
I bet your cousins don't call themselves freegans, though. i.e. vegan.
I'm not sure if my grandma ate roadkill, but she cooked some crazy stuff like squirrel and rabbitt
my gma dumpster dives and collects bottles and cans... she has plenty of money but she enjoys doing this and does so everyday... it's her little hobby... she makes a living off all the cans she collects and brings home beverages she finds that people left at the beach... she dumpster dives behind many stores and sells the stuff on ebay/ craigslist... she also shops at thrift stores and resells the stuff as well... i <3 my gma!
I think the freegan lifestyle has some good qualities...i would eat something out of a dumpster that was packaged i suppose... it's not really dirty/bad... i hate that at vons (where i work) we throw crap loads of good food away everyday!!! It disgusts me how wasteful we r... they could be donating that to homeless people of something!
I don't agree with eating food that could go bad if not refrigerated out of a dumpster... that's disgusting and unsafe!
Ok, just to clear up the argument of "it's not really freegan because you eat dumpstered meat and roadkill",
'Freegan' is a colloquial term. It is not specifically vegan. It is not a concrete, definitive term.
Where I live (with a huge dumpstering community) 'freegan' purely means someone who actively does not support the meat/animal products industry (even their foods ARE vegan). Some of my friends identify as freegan and also eat a purely vegan diet. Some of them eat a vegetarian diet. Some of them are almost purely carnivorous, but dumpster or table-dive (eating abandonned food off plates). Some are like me, onivorous. I maintain a main-ly vegan diet, sometimes eating animal bi-products and every now and then eating meat when I can find nothing/not enough of anything else.
All identify as Freegan, and communal foods are always vegan. Especially at Food Not Bombs, Gigs, Actions, Metings, blockades etc etc
I was a vegan for 5 years beforehand and vegetarian for 2 years before that.
I do not buy meat or dairy that was bought or stolen (supermarket's capital covers stolen goods, it is pretty much the same as buying - unless it's massive theft) and I rarely buy food period because I'm anti-capitalist and believe that food is a RIGHT not a privilege.
If that means I'd rather eat dumpstered meat/animals than support one of the many f*cked uo food industies, so be it.
But, to clear things up and to not make people assume all freegans eat meat/animal products, I do say I'm a "freegan that eats dumpstered dairy or meat sometimes."
As far as roadkill goes, I do not do it frequently as I live in the city but I have eaten Kangaroo whilst hitching and/or travelling.
I enjoy living off waste (I dumpster, squat and lots of other things), I do not think I'm going to save the world, it's just a moral choice I have made - much like others making the choice to be vegan.
I know that not that many people are freegan (just as not that many people are vegan), I had to oversimplify things to show the bigger picture at hand.
To me, the main benefit of freeganism is less dumpster waste, which is great don't get me wrong, but it doesn't change the negatives in our system as much as buying local, organic, and vegan does. Our power as (monetary) consumers is one of the strongest powers we have as individuals, it's a power I wouldn't want to voluntarily give up when there are good options available.
On the other hand, I absolutely advocate picking furniture or clothes out of the trash, or buying them at thrift stores. My logic is that, as it is, there's probably enough furniture and clothes in good or fixable condition to last us for another 200 years or more (as long as our population rate doesn't explode). Plus, when someone dies their belongings can still be used, and it would be foolish to let them go to waste.
Education is important too, I think gardening should be a required subject in schools. Schools could even use the plants for their lunches and sell what's left over to raise money. Gardening is part of curriculum in a lot of Montessori schools, or at least Maria Montessori thought it was important.
As far as population control is concerned, I didn't specify poor or rich, a person is a person. I'm all for government spending on free condoms if it will keep our numbers down. Besides, using condoms isn't the only form of population control; the cheapest method is knowing when you can get pregnant and abstaining during that period, but I digress.
"Theft" and "loss" are fixed into the consumer price, in business terms I believe its referred to as shrinkage. All appropriated and accounted for.
Recycling companies in nyc were recently busted for cashing in on deposit bottles a multitude of times... http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2009/08/26/2009-08-26_recycling_the_recycling_boro_recycling_inc_charged_in_doubledipping_fraud.html
Ok, just to clear up the argument of "it's not really freegan because you eat dumpstered meat and roadkill",
'Freegan' is a colloquial term. It is not specifically vegan. It is not a concrete, definitive term.
Where I live (with a huge dumpstering community) 'freegan' purely means someone who actively does not support the meat/animal products industry (even their foods ARE vegan). Some of my friends identify as freegan and also eat a purely vegan diet. Some of them eat a vegetarian diet. Some of them are almost purely carnivorous, but dumpster or table-dive (eating abandonned food off plates). Some are like me, onivorous. I maintain a main-ly vegan diet, sometimes eating animal bi-products and every now and then eating meat when I can find nothing/not enough of anything else.
All identify as Freegan, and communal foods are always vegan. Especially at Food Not Bombs, Gigs, Actions, Metings, blockades etc etc
Thanks for trying to clear it up.
I guess I'm not a fan of "colloquial terms." That all seems very confusing. It seems like more sense to say "I'm a dumpster diver," (or however you want to word it), other than "I'm freegan, BUT not vegan." The word freegan is free + vegan. I still don't get that, but whatever..I'm not really that concerned with it. I would be concerned with a vegan "community" doing the same (i.e. some of us are "vegan" and eat eggs, and some others eat pork, etc.), because that affects the vegan community as a whole. Eh.
I agree with supadup, again.
i think u cant claim ur a vegan if u still eat meat on occasion/ animal products on purpose... look up the definition ur not vegan... not even freegan but dumpster diver :P
"maybe i'm not understanding, but it kinda feels like the whole welfare mothers debate which is annoying to me. i never hear about rich people having children and how that is adding to the over population problem. poor people just need to stop having babies and die off. (okay i know that sounds extreme, but that's how it seems sometimes to me)."
Well, i just have to add my two cents in here. I see it like this. Over population is like basically saying that there are too many people and not enough resources. Well, the society that we live in is based on people working for money, and using that money to obtain the resources they need to survive. Rich people are not contributing to over population then because they have enough money to provide the resources for their children, where as "poor" people or welfare mothers are not. In fact they are wholly dependent and expect other people to work and then provide them (and their children) with the resources they need to survive. It only seems reasonable that the people who cannot afford to provide for themselves or their children should not have children. This may sound harsh, but it is true. And I know that people fall into hard circumstances that are unavoidable and need help. But I am mostly referring to those individuals (and there are many) who use the system and expect me to pay for it. If these individuals alone would stop having children for the express purpose of exploiting the system, it would contribute greatly to reducing the overpoulation problem. Not really about freeganism, but ehh.
I've wanted to dumpster dive TJ's trash. I wish I knew someone who knew their trash schedule. And someone to do it with. It seems like it would be fun to get odwalla juice bottles for free. Like presents are exciting.
after close (9pm) 'til the day shift (or only shift) goes home - 1030-11 pm. I'm assuming it's the same for all TJs, as we were required to toss stuff out the night before expiry date - there should never be stuff with an expiry of the same day there.
At ours, it didn't go straight in the dumpster, just next to it in grocery carts. If it was still there shortly before opening (830-9am), it was tossed out, 'cause they didn't want customers coming by with a bunch of food trash by the side of the store.
I wonder if the laws vary by state or something. There is not a law in NC that prevents stores from selling out of date food items. In fact, there are several small chains that do just that! I can think of 3 right in my immediate area. I like it, because then the organic crackers aren't just for the rich. You too, can eat $4 "Rich" crackers, but for 99 cents!
Taking away a womans right to reprocreate is not going to fly in a democratic 'free' society.
I believe ( correct me if I am mistaken) that its our goal as a modernized free society that has the luxury of wealth to ensure every child regardless of gender, social class and demographic background have equal opportunities. Our country was found upon people seeking freedom from persecution.
Just as much as I doubt you enjoy seeing animals suffer from squalor and starvation, I would go to the safe assumption that the sight of a child dying of the same would have some effect.
The world is murky. Are there not certain human obligations to care for fellow humans?
Does we base classification and status upon wealth, more so than we do currently?
If this was the consensus, I would opt out and seek a different society.
Some think the solution for the worlds food supply and demand is population control.
Others feel the science can satisfy the demand, through gmo cropping ect..
A portion believe that restructuring by education, opportunity and redefining how we provide food in a sustainable manner can balance the supply and demand.
I am willing to eat day old bread, give up extreme luxuries of 5$ lattes, a 500,000$ home, having an understanding on my impact as a human with foresight that there can be a greater mean of equality.
I've seen cleanly cut halves of deer on the side of the road before. They must have been hit and then someone decided they wanted half of it.
How do they cut a deer in half? Like, does everyone drive around with deer cutting tools just in case?
I grew up in illinois, deer hunting is a big thing there too. It is not uncommon to see dead deer laying by the interstate or back roads. I'm sure alot of hunters keep tools handy. If the deer isn't too mangled, they probably just try to get it into their truck if that is possible.
Yeah, my mom hit a deer just a couple of blocks from our house when I was a kid, it was scarry cuz I was in the car too and although my mom was going like 25 mi/hr, it totally smashed the front in! The deer was dead, thank goodness, so we called the police, you have to when you hit one so the dnr can record it and come and pick up the carcass, but my dad wanted it, so the police said go ahead and take it, and my dad butchered it. We were totally broke as kids and the meat helped a lot.
Im from WI, so hunting is a given around here, and although I hate the idea of killing an animal, I can see why some do. For the cost of a liscence, which isn't that much, you can often get up to three deer, which are vastly overpopulated around here. It gives many people meat, and helps control the deer population. One reason they end up getting hit by cars so often is that there are so many of them living near people, and no areas where hunting is allowed, so the herds get huge. They often starve in the winter, and we have problems with cronic wasting disease too.
We don't have such large animals in Australia, but most of the people I know (especially the ones who eat roadkill) carry around a knife.
... Not in a "some one might attack me and I will defend myself" way, but when you travel around a lot it's a valuable tool to have.
Guns laws are very different here, so barely anyone would carry a gun in their car, barring farmers.
And, yes, it's generally fresh and intact roadkill. Eating a squished cartoon-thin animal could be really dangerous because of ruptured organs etc.
The meat from a Moose could feed a family of four for a year (with access to a freezer).
I, of course, am not arguing that meat-filled diet is healthy or morally sound (depending on your morals).
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