dangers of soy??
Posted by lime green on Sep 22, 2007 · Member since Apr 2007 · 634 posts
someone i know posted this link on the facebook. i can't really figure out whether this is reputable or not. the site is run by a private corporation, but it seems to be a little conspiratory
http://www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/index.htm
any thoughts?
does anyone have information on soy that comes from a reputable medical journal or news source?
I'll definitely keep looking for more info; I admit I'm skeptical, but will read up on it with an open mind... one reason I like 'Food Fight' is 'cause it's stimulating being exposed to different viewpoints-- how boring would it be if we were all in agreement?!
;)
I could pull up some links but in the end it's all information and most will except info as long as it doesn't have the possibilty of interfering with ther life style....
Except there are plenty of us saying that we'd like to know your sources so we can follow up & make up our minds based on the information... Clearly we are open-minded enough to accept information that is TRUE, as all of us are vegan/vegetarian. Information about veg*nism isn't readily handed to us from birth; it's quite the opposite, as you know. But all of us learned about vegetarianism, and decided to stop eating animals! So your statement about people only "accepting information as long as it doesn't have the possibility of interfering with their lifestyle" obviously doesn't apply to us as a group.
It seems to me that you would share your information on soy if it were credible.
I googled Andrew Weil and the dangers of soy...this was the first article to come up. In summary, soy is fine if its non-gmo, organic, and in its natural state!
http://www.examiner.com/x-5966-Phoenix-Healthy-Food-Examiner~y2009m5d16-Soy-dangers-and-benefits--the-myths-and-the-facts
I googled Andrew Weil and the dangers of soy...this was the first article to come up. In summary, soy is fine if its non-gmo, organic, and in its natural state!
http://www.examiner.com/x-5966-Phoenix-Healthy-Food-Examiner~y2009m5d16-Soy-dangers-and-benefits--the-myths-and-the-facts
I said if it's not fermented properly it is very toxic....Also I mentioned GMO's....Not saying anything I didn't already....
PS re: plant estrogens and phytic acid - these substances are present in OTHER plant foods besides soy, like nuts, seeds, other legumes, and pretty much ANY plant food. So I question why people attack soy specifically and why I have never ever seen anyone make the same claims about other plant foods...could it be that someone is benefitting by spreading this information about soy in particular? Probably. Just sayin'.
The reason that soy is not healthy is because it has phytic acids, which reduce the absorbtion of many vitamins and minerals(something we all need to be healthy) It also contains anti-nutrients aka enzyme inhibitors needed for protein digestin and amino acid uptake.....It contains Haemaggluttin which causes red blood cells to clump together and inhibits oxygen uptake and growth to cells which also increases the risk of heart attack.....It contains Trypsin inhibitors that can cause pancreatic anlargement and eventually cancer....That is just to name a few things that other plants and most legumes and nuts dont contain....Look into it you may be surprised.....
i was referring to this. I figured that by googling what you said, I would find evidence of this. And it was to the contrary.
Go ahead and post the links, I'm sure more than one would be interested to see the sources. Otherwise, it's just an unsubstantiated statement. And an unsubstantiated claim has no credence.
Go ahead and post the links, I'm sure more than one would be interested to see the sources. Otherwise, it's just an unsubstantiated statement. And an unsubstantiated claim has no credence.
You guys kill me with this source stuff.....If you choose you don't want to believe it no matter how much sense it makes you will just say something like...."It sounds like some misinformation from the dairy industry"But here you go.....
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm
Go ahead and post the links, I'm sure more than one would be interested to see the sources. Otherwise, it's just an unsubstantiated statement. And an unsubstantiated claim has no credence.
You guys kill me with this source stuff.....If you choose you don't want to believe it no matter how much sense it makes you will just say something like...."It sounds like some misinformation from the dairy industry"But here you go.....
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm
Yeah, gee - we're real crazy for wanting to have facts to back up radical statements. Silly us! ::)
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
BTW - I was asking for sources because I actually really like learning about nutrition & health, and I have never heard of any of these claims about soy that you are stating. It was genuine curiosity; not me trying to be argumentative - but you telling us that you don't need sources & just use common sense seems fishy. If you wrote a paper about soy for school, a professor would require sources for your claims. I require sources when it comes to forming opinions that influence my actions regarding my health.
Go ahead and post the links, I'm sure more than one would be interested to see the sources. Otherwise, it's just an unsubstantiated statement. And an unsubstantiated claim has no credence.
You guys kill me with this source stuff.....If you choose you don't want to believe it no matter how much sense it makes you will just say something like...."It sounds like some misinformation from the dairy industry"But here you go.....
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm
Yeah, gee - we're real crazy for wanting to have facts to back up radical statements. Silly us! ::)
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
BTW - I was asking for sources because I actually really like learning about nutrition & health, and I have never heard of any of these claims about soy that you are stating. It was genuine curiosity; not me trying to be argumentative - but you telling us that you don't need sources & just use common sense seems fishy. If you wrote a paper about soy for school, a professor would require sources for your claims. I require sources when it comes to forming opinions that influence my actions regarding my health.
I guess I see what you're sayin...but to me I don't hold one source higher than another so it doesn't mean much to me....All sources give half truths and lie.... and it's our job (those of us who care enough to even read this stuff) to determine what we believ and I don't think we should let the source determine whether we believe something or not....It makes it more difficult to look at things objectively....Thats the key.....
regarding phytic acid, it is basically what plants use to store phosphorus, and so lots of high-P foods will have it, including leafy green and whole grains (it's in the bran). In one way, it's supposed to be an antioxidant, and in another way it's a chelator. :/ I guess it all depends on how much. There are many substances, including most vitamins and minerals, which are therapeutic up to a certain amount and toxic in high amounts. Hell, some people argue that arsenic is good for you in trace quantities.
Yeah, gee - we're real crazy for wanting to have facts to back up radical statements. Silly us! ::)
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
BTW - I was asking for sources because I actually really like learning about nutrition & health, and I have never heard of any of these claims about soy that you are stating. It was genuine curiosity; not me trying to be argumentative - but you telling us that you don't need sources & just use common sense seems fishy. If you wrote a paper about soy for school, a professor would require sources for your claims. I require sources when it comes to forming opinions that influence my actions regarding my health.
This is what I'm saying. As a university level tutor myself, I know that one of the primary rules is, if you can't back it up, don't put it out there. Serious research is sourced, and serious claims can be backed up. A person can say anything they want, and on the Internet, many have. But if a statement can be sourced, it has a great deal more credence. I know none of the students I work with can get by with making a totally unsubstantiated claim...and that's just in an Eng Lit paper. When dealing with people's health and nutrition, you need a bit more backup.
Yeah, gee - we're real crazy for wanting to have facts to back up radical statements. Silly us! ::)
Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.
BTW - I was asking for sources because I actually really like learning about nutrition & health, and I have never heard of any of these claims about soy that you are stating. It was genuine curiosity; not me trying to be argumentative - but you telling us that you don't need sources & just use common sense seems fishy. If you wrote a paper about soy for school, a professor would require sources for your claims. I require sources when it comes to forming opinions that influence my actions regarding my health.
This is what I'm saying. As a university level tutor myself, I know that one of the primary rules is, if you can't back it up, don't put it out there. Serious research is sourced, and serious claims can be backed up. A person can say anything they want, and on the Internet, many have. But if a statement can be sourced, it has a great deal more credence. I know none of the students I work with can get by with making a totally unsubstantiated claim...and that's just in an Eng Lit paper. When dealing with people's health and nutrition, you need a bit more backup.
Do you not understand that there are tons of stuy's that claimed to have prove that hydrogenated oils were healthier than natural oils....and we all know the truth now(and many other claims that have been disproven)....All I'm saying is that me pointing you to a study or a "source" claiming what I'm claiming means nothing.....Study's can be manipulated enough to say anything the tester wants them to....People put way too much faith in studys....It's kind of laughable....All souces do is cause you to look at them more subjective than objective depending on your bias.....
I actually just got done writing a paper about the dangers of soy for a class at my school... I wouldn't say that no one should eat it ever, but I do try to limit my intake (because I think it was making me gain weight for a while) and I believe that everyone should at least be informed about what they are eating. After all, that's why many of us gave up animal products, right? Because we became informed...
So, here are a few of the more reliable (I saw the Soy Online Service stuff and just wasn't sure what to think about it) sources I used for my paper, check them out if you're interested:
http://thyroid.about.com/cs/soyinfo/a/soy.htm
http://www.mercola.com/article/soy/avoid_soy.htm (this one may have already been posted)
http://www.jacn.org/cgi/reprint/19/2/242
http://thyroid.about.com/gi/o.htm?zi=1/XJ&zTi=1&sdn=thyroid&cdn=health&tm=155&f=21&su=p284.9.336.ip_p726.5.336.ip_&tt=2&bt=0&bts=0&zu=http%3A//www.soyonlineservice.co.nz/downloads/nctrpti.pdf
I like the whole "soy can lower sperm count" thing. Tell that to the chinese farmer who eats soy everyday and has all his life and has 12 kids.
That article is a joke. Sad that there are those out there who are so mis-informed to believe all that nonsence. Oh, soy MAY be bad for my health, think I will opt for a big, grease and cholesterol filled disgusting flesh burger instead ripped off the bones of a defenseless animal! I think I will take the risk and continue to eat soy.
Ok, so here is my question about this matter (and please, no one take this as an attack, I'm just curious because of what I've experienced):
Why is it that so many vegetarians/vegans get really bent out of shape about the whole soy thing? Why do they always assume that it's a plot cooked up by the meat industry? Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't. I dunno, it just seems like when the topic of soy being harmful to health is brought up, everyone has to get really angry about it. Would it be the same if studies started coming out saying that celery or carrots were bad? I don't think it would be...
i think many vegans have too much soy in their diet... i think limiting it is a good idea...i know it makes me sick now when i eat too much of it
Ok, so here is my question about this matter (and please, no one take this as an attack, I'm just curious because of what I've experienced):
Why is it that so many vegetarians/vegans get really bent out of shape about the whole soy thing? Why do they always assume that it's a plot cooked up by the meat industry? Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't. I dunno, it just seems like when the topic of soy being harmful to health is brought up, everyone has to get really angry about it. Would it be the same if studies started coming out saying that celery or carrots were bad? I don't think it would be...
Because it is true. Not so much by the meat industry, but by the dairy industry. Soy milk vs. dairy milk. Both sides present overblown health claims. But soy is a threat to dairy, so it is targeted. There isn't that motive with vegetables.
This is not uncommon in the food industry. Products are always trying to outdo other products that compete with them. It's easy for an industry to fund a study and "get" the results they pay for.
The other thing that makes vegans angry about it is, think of all the well-known health risks of dairy. There are so many, and they are so well-studied. To turn around and act like soy is some dangerous food is preposterous when you are downing milk. It just doesn't even compare--cholesterol, fat, calcium depletion, cancer links, hormones that we KNOW are added, etc.
That's why people need to trace the sources of info they read, hear etc so they can decide for themselves how trustworthy it is. Much of it is media soundbytes, and the magic words "studies have shown" seems to validate whatever in many consumers' minds. Who study? What study? Size of sample? Duration? Followup? Very seldom do you get that kind of info, just the magic words.
Having moved from the US to Europe and being in touch with both sides of the water, I am amused (in a way) to see how the anonymous "studies" being touted to the US consumer are always said to have taken place here, while on this side of the water we are told that the nebulous study took place "at a US university." Search as you will, you won't find it. Hmmmm.
Ok, so here is my question about this matter (and please, no one take this as an attack, I'm just curious because of what I've experienced):
Why is it that so many vegetarians/vegans get really bent out of shape about the whole soy thing? Why do they always assume that it's a plot cooked up by the meat industry? Maybe it is, but maybe it isn't. I dunno, it just seems like when the topic of soy being harmful to health is brought up, everyone has to get really angry about it. Would it be the same if studies started coming out saying that celery or carrots were bad? I don't think it would be...
I get bent out of shape when I hear myths and lies, like "soy is dangerous", "carbs make you fat", "a vegetarian diet is unhealthy"...blah blah blah
Have there been any studies of actual people who eat soy-vegans, for example- to determine whether any of these supposed health problems are present in them to a larger extent than in the general population?
We've been vegetarian, using plenty of soy, for 20 years. In fact, I ate soy products even as an omni kid. DH 50 and DS 17 do not have boobs. DD13 did not go through puberty early (she has just now at 13). We had no difficulty conceiving our kids, despite soy. I know this is one family, anecdotal and all. But where are studies on populations that eat soy showing an epidemic of health problems?
What are some of the other problems due to soy I should be looking for?
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