baby vaccinations
Ok I have an 11 month old baby girl and she is very healthy and has had no health problems at all. Me and my girlfriend have decided not to get her vaccinated as we have heard and read lots of negative things about vaccinations, and some of them we just find completely unnecessary anyways. Why would we want to put dangerous chemicals in our daughters body just to prevent a week of chicken pox? We have also read plenty of other arguments about how vaccinations are better good than bad, but it's just hard to know whats what. Well, when we go to the doctor and they try to give her shots and we tell them no, the nurses act like we are insane.
Has anyone else chose not to vaccinate? I would like to hear some opinions from fellow vegans/vegetarians about what they think. And please no one just say "you are terrible parents and your babies life is in danger." I just don't trust putting chemicals like that into my daughters body, especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit. Some day down the road if there are vaccinations that I feel have more positives than negatives, we may get those, but things like dtap and mmr just don't seem worth risking the damage they may do to her body.
Lack of Association Between Measles-Mumps-Rubella Vaccination and Autism in Children: A Case-Control Study
Mrozek-Budzyn, Dorota PhD; Kieltyka, Agnieszka PhD; Majewska, Renata MSc
Abstract
Objective: The first objective of the study was to determine whether there is a relationship between the measles-mumps-rubella (MMR) vaccination and autism in children. The second objective was to examine whether the risk of autism differs between use of MMR and the single measles vaccine.
Design: Case-control study.
Study Population: The 96 cases with childhood or atypical autism, aged 2 to 15, were included into the study group. Controls consisted of 192 children individually matched to cases by year of birth, sex, and general practitioners.
Methods: Data on autism diagnosis and vaccination history were from physicians. Data on the other probable autism risk factors were collected from mothers. Logistic conditional regression was used to assess the risk of autism resulting from vaccination. Assessment was made for children vaccinated (1) Before diagnosis of autism, and (2) Before first symptoms of autism onset. Odds ratios were adjusted to mother's age, medication during pregnancy, gestation time, perinatal injury and Apgar score.
Results: For children vaccinated before diagnosis, autism risk was lower in children vaccinated with MMR than in the nonvaccinated (OR: 0.17, 95% CI: 0.06-0.52) as well as to vaccinated with single measles vaccine (OR: 0.44, 95% CI: 0.22-0.91). The risk for vaccinated versus nonvaccinated (independent of vaccine type) was 0.28 (95% CI: 0.10-0.76). The risk connected with being vaccinated before onset of first symptoms was significantly lower only for MMR versus single vaccine (OR: 0.47, 95% CI: 0.22-0.99).
Conclusions: The study provides evidence against the association of autism with either MMR or a single measles vaccine.
especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.
Tell that to the thousands who have died.
Modern medicine has so successfully eliminated many disease that people forget how bad these diseases are. When was the last time you heard of a kid dying of diphtheria? Or pertussis?
how about you talk to people that die from getting vaccines, my goodness! >:(
I talk to a lot of people who are very sick. I don't think you can try to get on a high horse in this case.
Where are you getting your vaccine-related mortality data from? If you say Generation Rescue, then I'm going to laugh.
The official report is 10,000 according to the CDC. 25% of the deaths are those under 18. 50 million people have been infected with H1N1 as of November 14.
especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.
Tell that to the thousands who have died.
Modern medicine has so successfully eliminated many disease that people forget how bad these diseases are. When was the last time you heard of a kid dying of diphtheria? Or pertussis?
how about you talk to people that die from getting vaccines, my goodness! >:(
I talk to a lot of people who are very sick. I don't think you can try to get on a high horse in this case.
Where are you getting your vaccine-related mortality data from? If you say Generation Rescue, then I'm going to laugh.
The official report is 10,000 according to the CDC. 25% of the deaths are those under 18. 50 million people have been infected with H1N1 as of November 14.
Yes.
I may be missing something, but when I looked at the CDC website it said that Peds mortality was only 10%... peds cases and hospitalizations were ~1/3 of the total.
http://cdc.gov/h1n1flu/estimates_2009_h1n1.htm
Wonder what the anti-vax/vax-denialists/"H1N1 is a hoax" camp will say to that? There's an element of sensationalism in the press, but this is still a real problem.
Seeing someone die from a preventable disease like flu (with post-influenza bacterial pneumonia), measles, pertussis... is soul-crushing.
I looked at both their website and official news release. I found the 25% and 10,000 information in the news release. Agree, it is a big problem. The death toll is more than double what was expected by the CDC last month.
The lack of vaccines are my biggest concerns. They haven't reach our area, yet. My grandparents have compromised immune systems. If they catch this, it may be a death sentence.
For those that travel, there is no getting out of being vaccinated. Most countries will not let you in unless you have been immunized. This includes all childhood shots plus a few more the particular government wants you to have to prevent outbreaks in their country. Both times I went to West Africa, I had to get a round of immunizations that took a few months.
Hi! I haven't posted much on these threads, but this is a very important topic to me. I decided to not vaccinate my children when I was pregnant with my first child. I did a LOT of research on the subject, and there are so many risks involved. Also, it just doesn't make any sense to me to take a perfectly healthy child and inject them with a bunch of chemicals. I think people underestimate the power of our natural immune systems. And, of course, us Vegwebbers know that a healthy diet just helps boost that already awesome immune system :>. My son is now 7, and my daughter is 3, and they have hardly EVER been sick...and the few times they have been, the duration was very short. ALL of the other young children I PERSONALLY know who have received all of their vaccinations have had multiple ear infections and numerous illnesses, and a few of them have had to have their tonsils and adenoids removed and also have asthma. Thankfully, I also homeschool our children, so there is no issue with vaccinations and the school system.
I tell you what, though....after having two completely natural childbirths, breastfeeding each child for 2 years, refusing vaccinations, and feeding them a healthy, vegan diet....if I find out they are abusing their bodies when they grow up, I am going to be very sad :'(.
Hi! I haven't posted much on these threads, but this is a very important topic to me. I decided to not vaccinate my children when I was pregnant with my first child. I did a LOT of research on the subject, and there are so many risks involved. Also, it just doesn't make any sense to me to take a perfectly healthy child and inject them with a bunch of chemicals. I think people underestimate the power of our natural immune systems. And, of course, us Vegwebbers know that a healthy diet just helps boost that already awesome immune system :>. My son is now 7, and my daughter is 3, and they have hardly EVER been sick...and the few times they have been, the duration was very short. ALL of the other young children I PERSONALLY know who have received all of their vaccinations have had multiple ear infections and numerous illnesses, and a few of them have had to have their tonsils and adenoids removed and also have asthma. Thankfully, I also homeschool our children, so there is no issue with vaccinations and the school system.
I tell you what, though....after having two completely natural childbirths, breastfeeding each child for 2 years, refusing vaccinations, and feeding them a healthy, vegan diet....if I find out they are abusing their bodies when they grow up, I am going to be very sad :'(.
Underestimate the power of our natural immune systems? I'm guessing you didn't read up on how exactly vaccines work? They capitalize on the power of the adaptive immune system. A secondary response to an antigen is always faster and more powerful than a primary response. That's why vaccines are effective in preventing disease after infection.
Anyway. Kids <2 don't have fully formed immune systems. They're completely incapable of producing a T-cell independent B-cell response.
Of course it doesn't make sense to you to inject a healthy baby with "chemicals." You've never seen a really sick baby, and you've never had to know the horror of infant morbidity and mortality.
Your otitis media example is correlation/causation mixup at its best.
Can't resist adding this... ;-)
http://dontevenreply.com/view.php?post=67
Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the internet.
Varicella Zoster Virus is very different from TB and/or Malaria.
Plasmodium Falciparum in particular has a fairly high mortality in kids <5 years. Plasmodium Ovale and Vivax can enter the hyponozoite stage and become a latent infection.
Tuberculosis has a higher incidence of cavitary disease in younger individuals. Tuberculosis is actually pretty bad.
Can't resist adding this... ;-)
http://dontevenreply.com/view.php?post=67
Probably one of the dumbest things I've ever read on the internet.
Varicella Zoster Virus is very different from TB and/or Malaria.
Plasmodium Falciparum in particular has a fairly high mortality in kids <5 years. Plasmodium Ovale and Vivax can enter the hyponozoite stage and become a latent infection.
Tuberculosis has a higher incidence of cavitary disease in younger individuals. Tuberculosis is actually pretty bad.
That's the point. Duh. That's why the title of the website is 'Don't Even Reply'.
Considering some of the responses and opinions I've seen on vegweb, I don't think "duh" should be the immediate response. To some people, it's not that obvious. Just browse the comments section.
Interesting article from Newsweek.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/226097/page/1
Hi! I haven't posted much on these threads, but this is a very important topic to me. I decided to not vaccinate my children when I was pregnant with my first child. I did a LOT of research on the subject, and there are so many risks involved. Also, it just doesn't make any sense to me to take a perfectly healthy child and inject them with a bunch of chemicals. I think people underestimate the power of our natural immune systems. And, of course, us Vegwebbers know that a healthy diet just helps boost that already awesome immune system :>. My son is now 7, and my daughter is 3, and they have hardly EVER been sick...and the few times they have been, the duration was very short. ALL of the other young children I PERSONALLY know who have received all of their vaccinations have had multiple ear infections and numerous illnesses, and a few of them have had to have their tonsils and adenoids removed and also have asthma. Thankfully, I also homeschool our children, so there is no issue with vaccinations and the school system.
I tell you what, though....after having two completely natural childbirths, breastfeeding each child for 2 years, refusing vaccinations, and feeding them a healthy, vegan diet....if I find out they are abusing their bodies when they grow up, I am going to be very sad :'(.
I'd be careful--you have a lot of misinformation in here, on multiple levels. dienekes pointed out most of it. The notion that we can just eat our fruits and vegetables and protect ourselves against hideous illnesses is just naive. Being vegan will help your immune system for sure, but don't go around with a chip on your shoulder like it will keep your kids from getting measles or tuberculosis. Also, vaccines have nothing to do with ear infections, asthma, tonsilitis, and all those other irrelevant ailments.
The reasons your children don't get sick are these:
(a) they don't attend school!
(b) people they are exposed to are not sick or have already been vaccinated. Vaccines prevent the larger population from even exposing your children to vaccine-prevented illnesses.
I find the non-vaccination propaganda way more frightening and naive than any other supposed vaccine scare tactics. Generally I find that people who are so vehemently opposed to vaccines know very little about basic immunology and epidemiology. They go on and on about putting chemicals into your body. And?
Would vaccine skeptics rather the government UNDERESTIMATE the potential impact of flus and other epidemics? Then they'd be crying "government conspiracy! The government is withholding treatment from us!" Guarantee it.
I'm sorry, but "Oh, look at my healthy kids! They sure look fine!" is kind of a scary thing to hear. And "Janie never got vaccinated, and she's fine!" is not a valid argument here. As fb has explained time and again, vaccine efficacy is related to protecting the POPULATION. If you don't get vaccinated, and you don't get sick, it's because you haven't been exposed. You haven't been exposed because vaccines have diminished the incidence of that disease in your population. Why is that so difficult to understand?
I agree KissMeKate that the need to vaccinate children is not apparent because we don't live in a time or place were childhood death is a common occurence. Prior to the 1950s, epidemics of comical disease like measels, TB and influenza were real concerns. Literally tens of thousands of young adults and children would die or left perminatley disabled from these diseases each year. In many places in the world, parents have to bury 1/4 to 1/2 of their children before they are old enough to go to school. Many of them die from diseases that were eliminated in developed countries decades ago. (Polo outbreaks still happen in West Africa.) Manditory mass vaccinations, antibiodics - and now antiviral- and efficient plumbing have made this a long distant memory in this country.
I agree KissMeKate that the need to vaccinate children is not apparent because we don't live in a time or place were childhood death is a common occurence. Prior to the 1950s, epidemics of comical disease like measels, TB and influenza were real concerns. Literally tens of thousands of young adults and children would die or left perminatley disabled from these diseases each year. In many places in the world, parents have to bury 1/4 to 1/2 of their children before they are old enough to go to school. Many of them die from diseases that were eliminated in developed countries decades ago. (Polo outbreaks still happen in West Africa.) Manditory mass vaccinations, antibiodics - and now antiviral- and efficient plumbing have made this a long distant memory in this country.
Exactly. It makes me very angry when people take for granted the fact that some of those devastating diseases have been eradicated in this country thanks to vaccines (and, of course, other measures). They look around and think, "Wow, who needs vaccines? There's no real disease to worry about!" Gee, wonder how that came to be...
I'd be careful--you have a lot of misinformation in here, on multiple levels. dienekes pointed out most of it. The notion that we can just eat our fruits and vegetables and protect ourselves against hideous illnesses is just naive. Being vegan will help your immune system for sure, but don't go around with a chip on your shoulder like it will keep your kids from getting measles or tuberculosis. Also, vaccines have nothing to do with ear infections, asthma, tonsilitis, and all those other irrelevant ailments.
There is a lot of research that connects asthma, ear infections, etc. to vaccinations. And, the other children I speak of, my neices and nephews, are also not in school (too young). Regardless, I am not trying to convince anyone of my opinion....I was simply stating my choice in the matter, and that we are happy with our decision. I am not into debate or confrontation, and I certainly wouldn't put any of you down for supporting vaccinations. The decision is up to each parent, and I am very thankful that we get to make that choice. We all have to do what is right in our gut and our hearts. My husband and I both felt uncomfortable with the idea, we researched as much information as possible from both sides, and we made our choice. Which is exactly what I recommend everyone does. Do not choose to NOT vaccinate your child because I say so, and do not choose to vaccinate your child because another person says so. Do your research, and make the best decision for you and your family. :)
And, yes...I am aware that this is the "debate" forum. I simply saw that there were other people who also do not vaccinate, and I just wanted to show my support. However, whether we agree on the topic, I support all of you in whatever choice you think is right for your family, and wish you all peace and good health! :)>>>
I'd be interested in the "lot" of ear infection/asthma and vaccination linkage research. Do you have sources? I've never heard of that and am very skeptical. Pegging vaccines as the cause of an ear infection is just....there's no basis for it. Some kids get ear infections. Maybe they tend to get more water in their ears when they bathe, who knows! Maybe they're just predisposed due to their physiology. You realize that ear infections are usually BACTERIAL, right? While most childhood vaccines are VIRAL? I was always the one who got ear infections in my family, and my sisters never did. We received identical vaccinations. You just can't make a leap like that! Saying that ALL the other young children you know are ill due to vaccines. Come on now.
Just know that vaccines, and large-scale vaccination programs are to thank for the fact that your kids will probably be fine un-vaccinated. If the majority of parents made that decision, we'd be in trouble.
Sorry, I don't really get all kumbaya in the debate forum, and I don't think all the choices are equally valid. It's just not my style.
eta: I googled vaccines and ear infections. All I got whatsoever were pages about a vaccine FOR ear infections.... ::)
I'd be interested in the "lot" of ear infection/asthma and vaccination linkage research. Do you have sources? I've never heard of that and am very skeptical. Pegging vaccines as the cause of an ear infection is just....there's no basis for it. Some kids get ear infections. Maybe they tend to get more water in their ears when they bathe, who knows! Maybe they're just predisposed due to their physiology. You realize that ear infections are usually BACTERIAL, right? While most childhood vaccines are VIRAL? I was always the one who got ear infections in my family, and my sisters never did. We received identical vaccinations. You just can't make a leap like that! Saying that ALL the other young children you know are ill due to vaccines. Come on now.
Just know that vaccines, and large-scale vaccination programs are to thank for the fact that your kids will probably be fine un-vaccinated. If the majority of parents made that decision, we'd be in trouble.
Sorry, I don't really get all kumbaya in the debate forum, and I don't think all the choices are equally valid. It's just not my style.
eta: I googled vaccines and ear infections. All I got whatsoever were pages about a vaccine FOR ear infections.... ::)
And I don't understand why you are so angry? I am NOT saying that they get ear infections BECAUSE of vaccinations...I simply said I have read a lot of information connecting vaccinations to ear infections, and that all of my nieces and nephews have had them. Gee...this is simply my personal observation. OF COURSE there is no way for me or any of us to know all of the effects of vaccinations...short or long-term. AS I SAID, do what you think is right for your family, and I will do what I think is best for mine. You debating me does not change my mind. Besides my own personal feelings about it, there is enough information out there to support my decision. Relax, man. ;)
Don't worry...I will not be posting on the debate forum, anymore (I was not aware that when the author of the post ASKS if anyone else agrees with them, that we were subject to attack by others...I assumed the author would be the one to debate the issue). Now...if someone could please refer me to the easy-going, fun-lovin' peeps forum where differences of opinion are respected, I would be much obliged. :P
Actually, you did say that ear infections are caused by vaccines.....
This is the description of this forum:
"The gloves are about to come off. It’s time for a no-holds barred, battle of the words. If you’re looking for a debate (read: argument), you’ve come to the right place."
That doesn't mean, "Everybody post your opinions and we will all talk about how we agree with each other. And if we don't agree then we'll just hug." And no, the author (who happens to agree with you) is not the only one permitted to respond.
I tried to have an intellectual discussion with you about it but you refuse to respond to any of those points. Instead, you say, "Well, that's my opinion, leave it alone!" That's not a debate. That's you spouting your opinion with no sources cited and leaving.
I'm fun-loving. You should see my thread about sex positions.
OF COURSE there is no way for me or any of us to know all of the effects of vaccinations...short or long-term.
You could easily read vaccine research that uses rigorous science.
Actually, you did say that ear infections are caused by vaccines.....
This is the description of this forum:
"The gloves are about to come off. It’s time for a no-holds barred, battle of the words. If you’re looking for a debate (read: argument), you’ve come to the right place."
That doesn't mean, "Everybody post your opinions and we will all talk about how we agree with each other. And if we don't agree then we'll just hug." And no, the author (who happens to agree with you) is not the only one permitted to respond.
I tried to have an intellectual discussion with you about it but you refuse to respond to any of those points. Instead, you say, "Well, that's my opinion, leave it alone!" That's not a debate. That's you spouting your opinion with no sources cited and leaving.
I'm fun-loving. You should see my thread about sex positions.
Sweetie, I reseached this information 8 years ago (as I said, when I was preganant with my first child), and you want me to give sources? Google "vaccine risks" and "dangers of vaccinations". I wouldn't just pull this information out of the air...how could that possibly benefit me and my family? And, as I've already pointed out a couple of times...I ONLY posted here in support of others who have made the same choice...ONLY because I know it is hard to find peple who agree. AND, I'm not saying that the information that I read is positivily correct...but you can't say that everything you think you know is, either. It is completely possible that science has not proven what could happen to you 20, 30, 40 years down the road after you recieve your childhood vaccinations. There are so many things that they later discover are not good for us. I just want to keep my children's bodies as pure as possible, which is why I also had natural childbirth and breastfed. My pediatrician (who is not a hollistic doctor) has 9 children and has chosen to not vaccinate them. If you asks a doctor what the possible side effects of vaccines are, the list starts with high fever and goes on and on to possible death. Children HAVE died from vaccines. And, yes, I'm aware many people have also died of those diseases...but many of them have been eradicated (yes, I know because of vaccines), and now those vaccines are not necessary, and I couldn't possibly put my own child, who I love SO MUCH, at risk like that. You can't tell me to feel differently about that.
Here are a couple of links below to sites with a lot of information. There are numerous websites on the "dangers of vaccinations". Sure, some of it might be "conspiracy" tactics...you have to just take the information you find feasible. With all of the info out there, we each have to weed through the bull. I'm not saying I'm an expert on anything, I am not a scientist...I can only read stuff, just like you. As far as my nieces and nephews are concerned, let's just say this was simply a small study or survey:
There are 8 children (including my 2) and 4 sets of parents. 6 of the 8 have recieved vaccinations. Out of the 6 vaccinated, all have had multiple ear infections, 2 have asthma, 2 have had their tonsils removed, and 2 have delayed speech and learning difficulties. The 2 unvaccinated children have had none of these ailments or disorders. 4 of the vaccinated children have been born naturally and breastfed for a couple of years, and 2 of the unvaccinated children have also been born naturally and breastfed for a couple of years. All children spend most of their time at home with their parents.
This is the kind of thing statistics come from. I am NOT saying that vaccinations DEFINITELY caused any of these problems...it could be a number of things - their environment, genetics, diet...WHO KNOWS??? But, when my sister-in-laws have come to me and said "Why have your children never had ear infections?", and "What do you do to keep your children so healthy?", I answer them truthfully "I really don't know? I don't vaccinate...maybe that's it?". We can't rule it out as a possibility...even a very slight one. As I said in my original post, that is the children I PERSONALLY know....I am well aware that there are many perfectly healthy vaccinated children (I was not one of them...I had to have a tonsillectomy and tubes put in my ears at 5-years old, because of constant ear infections and illness). Dude, I KNOW that because my children are not vaccinated, there is a slight risk they could contract a disease, but I PERSONALLY feel the risks of vaccinations are greater. I love these little angels so much, I can't imagine what I would do if anything ever happened to them. I pray every day that they remain healthy, happy, intelligent children, and that they live long, full lives.
http://www.educate-yourself.org/vcd/
http://www.relfe.com/vaccine.html
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