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baby vaccinations

Ok I have an 11 month old baby girl and she is very healthy and has had no health problems at all. Me and my girlfriend have decided not to get her vaccinated as we have heard and read lots of negative things about vaccinations, and some of them we just find completely unnecessary anyways.  Why would we want to put dangerous chemicals in our daughters body just to prevent a week of chicken pox?  We have also read plenty of other arguments about how vaccinations are better good than bad, but it's just hard to know whats what. Well, when we go to the doctor and they try to give her shots and we tell them no, the nurses act like we are insane.

Has anyone else chose not to vaccinate? I would like to hear some opinions from fellow vegans/vegetarians about what they think. And please no one just say "you are terrible parents and your babies life is in danger."  I just don't trust putting chemicals like that into my daughters body, especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.  Some day down the road if there are vaccinations that I feel have more positives than negatives, we may get those, but things like dtap and mmr just don't seem worth risking the damage they may do to her body.

well, there are a lot of people that are pro-Vx on this site, we recently had a thread about it.

I don't like vaccinations just because they aren't vegan and I believe that the body is amazing at what it does and as long as you give it a healthy environment it will usually sort things out (and be better than if you meddled).

Recently, there were 100 kids given twice the dose that they are supposed to get of H1N1... I don't think any died, though (pheww!)

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Firstly, congrats on your healthy baby girl!!

Also, very glad you're researching what is going into her body.

DON'T STOP

I'm personally on the fence when it comes to vaccinations, leaning for more than against when it comes to most of them.

There's various hype/smoke screens on both sides of the playing field.

MMR, Polio, Tetanus and the Heps, I'm all in support for. These are fairly tried and true, and have been the most beneficial in my mind. Given my history and sensitivities, out of the new ones, I would fight against the Chicken Pox vaccine (seems unnecessary), but go for the Pneumonia one for my child. (Pneumonia sent me into a 24 hr coma @ 9mo.) And all others, I'd let the child decide for themselves.

Research, know your rights. Before it gets too much later, look at the requirements for schooling (if you haven't started already). A few of my friends decided not to vaccinate their children after reading a some things, and didn't give it another thought until it became time for headstart/kindergarten/preschool, etc.... One incident led to a fiasco of a grand scale nearly resulting in holding a girl back an entire year due to the red tape bullsh*t. So save yourself the grief, stress, and headaches, do your research now and remember -

Don't be afraid to ask questions.

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I have 3 extremely healthy non-vaccinated children. As a parent you are right to trust your instincts and you have the right to choose what you think is best for your child.

I am not going to list all of the reasons why I am anti-vaccines, however I can point you to some excellent books that should be available at your library. Also, try to find a naturopathic or homeopathic doctor who supports your decisions and doesn't make you feel like you are harming your child by not vaccinating.

Books...

Stephanie Cave. What Your Doctor Doesn’t Tell you About Children’s Vaccinations. New York: Warner Books, 2001.
http://www.amazon.com/What-Doctor-About-Childrens-Vaccinations/dp/0446677078/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259893076&sr=8-1

Neil Z. Miller, Vaccine Safety Manual. New Mexico: New Atlantean Press, 2008.
http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Safety-Concerned-Families-Practitioners/dp/1881217353/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259893118&sr=1-3

Randall Neustaedter, The Vaccine Guide: Risks and Benefits for Adults and Children. California: North Atlantic Books, 2002.
http://www.amazon.com/Vaccine-Guide-Benefits-Children-Adults/dp/1556434235/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1259893152&sr=1-1

Best wishes, VS

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well thank you for the information. I will check out these books.
It's good too know of other people who have made the same choice and have healthy children!!

Also, I was wondering, do your children go to public schools? I know that schools require immunizations, but I also know that you can get exemptions from them on medical or religious grounds. Do you know anything about these exemptions and if they are difficult to acquire?

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I don't know if it's different, but I got an exemption for a couple of immunizations in college and it was really easy. I just said it was against my religion (which was bullshit).

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If/when I have a child, I will not get them vaccinated unless theres a really good reason for it. Or if my child is born sick. I agree though, when they get older I would make it their choice. As far as schools go, I would just say its against your religion. If they make a big deal about it then I would do research on it and come up with a lie. Personally I would home school, but thats just because I had a hard time in public schools and most of them now a days (atleast the ones I know of) are pretty crappy with low standards, and teachers who just want a check. Plus the lunch programs, and such and the "nutritional" information they teach them is crap.

(this is not to be offensive to anyone, I know there are teacher on this site, I'm just saying around here, thats how it is)

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If/when I have a child, I will not get them vaccinated unless theres a really good reason for it. Or if my child is born sick. I agree though, when they get older I would make it their choice. As far as schools go, I would just say its against your religion. If they make a big deal about it then I would do research on it and come up with a lie. Personally I would home school, but thats just because I had a hard time in public schools and most of them now a days (atleast the ones I know of) are pretty crappy with low standards, and teachers who just want a check. Plus the lunch programs, and such and the "nutritional" information they teach them is crap.

(this is not to be offensive to anyone, I know there are teacher on this site, I'm just saying around here, thats how it is)

We've still not decided about public schools or not. I got a lot of shit in high school too and it sucked, but that also contributed to me questioning people and their ideas, which made me who I am now.
If we sent her to public schools, we would just have to "re-teach" a lot to her at home, because there are PLENTY of things that they'd be teaching her that we'd dissagree with.

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As far as school requirements, it really depends on you state. My kids are in the public school system in Ohio, which happens to offer a "philosophical exemption", basically meaning I can just say "um, no thanks, no vaccines..."and no one says anything. All I have to do is cross out the vaccine chart on the school paper work and attach a letter quoting the Ohio state law regarding vaccines. No school administrator has ever even mentioned it to me.

However, I know other states do not offer philosophical exemptions. Most likely only religious or medical. I will try to find a link to a site that lists each states vaccine laws.

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Here's a site with link to each state's laws and exemption forms. I think I modified one of the school forms to be specific for my district.

http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

Here is another site with a map showing which states allow "personal", medical or religious exemptions.

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/cc-exem.htm

It looks like things have changed in recent years because there are a lot of states now allowing "personal belief" exemptions. Years ago there were only a few. So that is a positive change. Hopefully you are in one of those states and not Mississippi or West Virginia...

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Here's a site with link to each state's laws and exemption forms. I think I modified one of the school forms to be specific for my district.

http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm

Here is another site with a map showing which states allow "personal", medical or religious exemptions.

http://www.vaccinesafety.edu/cc-exem.htm

It looks like things have changed in recent years because there are a lot of states now allowing "personal belief" exemptions. Years ago there were only a few. So that is a positive change. Hopefully you are in one of those states and not Mississippi or West Virginia...

thanks for the links. I had been looking and couldn't find much. Living in Indiana, I guess I'll just have to say that I have religous believes opposed to vaccinations lol

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especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.

Tell that to the thousands who have died.

Modern medicine has so successfully eliminated many disease that people forget how bad these diseases are.  When was the last time you heard of a kid dying of diphtheria?  Or pertussis?

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The flu vaccine, including H1N1, is one of the vaccines that still contains large quantities of mercury.

Incidences of Diptheria and Pertussis were already declining before the vaccines were introduced for these illnesses.

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especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.

Tell that to the thousands who have died.

Modern medicine has so successfully eliminated many disease that people forget how bad these diseases are.  When was the last time you heard of a kid dying of diphtheria?  Or pertussis?

i am more suspect of the safety and necessity for the vaccine, not for the validity of the virus, although, I do think it has been way overblown just to stir up hysteria. The media loves hysteria.

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especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.

Tell that to the thousands who have died.

Modern medicine has so successfully eliminated many disease that people forget how bad these diseases are.  When was the last time you heard of a kid dying of diphtheria?  Or pertussis?

how about you talk to people that die from getting vaccines, my goodness! >:(

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There are some cases where a disease starts to decline in a population before vaccination protocol is implemented (diseases can run out of hosts), but vaccination keeps them out of a population. Once the threat of smallpox went away (it's pretty much considered eradicated), kids no longer got vaccinated.

I know some people are not fans of vaccines, for various reasons. Not vegan, other chemicals in it besides the killed virus/attenuated virus, theories about autoimmune diseases, etc. But I think we underestimate the harm caused by these childhood diseases simply because we do not see them.

I don't know about *all* vaccines. Especially varicella... it's not that bad of a disease, but it's a good idea if the kid's going to be around anyone who has never had the disease or an immunocompromised person. But still, some of these "unnecessary" vaccines are less about protecting the patient, than the population. The flu isn't a big deal for most adults, but it is a big deal for people who have less than healthy immune systems. However, for most diseases not everyone needs to be vaccinated for there to be general protection - herd immunity. The general average for this is that 70% of the population needs to be immune.

As for the whole argument that we're being scared into getting vaccines... on the other hand, a lot of people are getting scared to not get them. Rumors of adverse reactions that have never clinically been documented has caused many parents/children opt out of the HPV vaccine, even though it could potentially protect young women from cervical cancer.

In veterinary medicine, sometimes we don't vaccinate with the full "core" vaccines. But usually that's because the owner says that the cat stays inside 100% of the time, and they have no plans for the cat ever going outside. In that case, the cat as a carrier is not a risk, and she's not likely to contract FIV or FeLV unless the owner brings in another cat who has it or has access to the outdoors. But this isn't really a reasonable situation to extrapolate to children... your children will be with other people all the time. And in some cases, such as tetanus, it doesn't matter if no one else in the population has a disease.

With some diseases, you can simply treat after infection, provided you catch it soon enough. However, if your child is "born sick," you can't vaccinate an ill person. A modified live virus would be too risky, and for killed vaccines, they probably wouldn't benefit because the immune system would be preoccupied.

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especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.

Tell that to the thousands who have died.

Modern medicine has so successfully eliminated many disease that people forget how bad these diseases are.  When was the last time you heard of a kid dying of diphtheria?  Or pertussis?

how about you talk to people that die from getting vaccines, my goodness! >:(

I talk to a lot of people who are very sick.  I don't think you can try to get on a high horse in this case.

Where are you getting your vaccine-related mortality data from?  If you say Generation Rescue, then I'm going to laugh.

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The flu vaccine, including H1N1, is one of the vaccines that still contains large quantities of mercury.

Incidences of Diptheria and Pertussis were already declining before the vaccines were introduced for these illnesses.

So explain why in the late-70's/early-80's Pertussis made a comeback in countries that stopped vaccinating.  There was a very similar anti-vax movement that correlated Pertussis to encephalitis.  That link didn't actually exist, and there was considerable morbidity and mortality for no reason.

Look.  If your child gets subacute sclerosing panencephalitis after Measles, you're going to be angry.  You'll be especially angry when you realize that the disease was preventable.  Same goes for pneumococcal meningitis, H. flu meninigitis, spinal paralytic poliomyelitis etc.

Everyone's happy when things are fine, and that's the problem with the fact that all these preventable diseases... are being prevented.

Just because a person has driven drunk a couple times without dying or killing anyone doesn't mean that everyone should be allowed to drive drunk.

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especially ones like H1N1, of which i am highly suspect anyways and personally think is bullshit.

Tell that to the thousands who have died.

Modern medicine has so successfully eliminated many disease that people forget how bad these diseases are.  When was the last time you heard of a kid dying of diphtheria?  Or pertussis?

how about you talk to people that die from getting vaccines, my goodness! >:(

I talk to a lot of people who are very sick.  I don't think you can try to get on a high horse in this case.

Where are you getting your vaccine-related mortality data from?  If you say Generation Rescue, then I'm going to laugh.

I believe she is speaking from personal experience.

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Look, there is a ton of misinformation going around about vaccinations. Please look at the science and please (please please) remember: Correlation does not equal causation.

The is no hard science that links vaccines to any of the horror stories out there. There is hard science that links vaccinations to disease control, healthy children and a heathier population. By not vaccinating, parents are putting their children and others at risk.

Look hard at the science, then decide.

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Look, there is a ton of misinformation going around about vaccinations. Please look at the science and please (please please) remember: Correlation does not equal causation.

The is no hard science that links vaccines to any of the horror stories out there. There is hard science that links vaccinations to disease control, healthy children and a heathier population. By not vaccinating, parents are putting their children and others at risk.

Look hard at the science, then decide.

This.  Nice to have a voice of reason for a change.

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