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NVR - Relationship question

This is really random, but I thought I'd post this question and see y'alls thoughts . . .

I'm 31 yo, have only dated men and have been single for the past 3 years, with a few unsuccessful dating attempts over the past 2 years (for more details see the Online Dating Catastrophe thread).  Physical attraction isn't the most important quality to me, since I'd much rather have an amazing conversation than a great roll in the hay.  That being said, I've always been able to appreciate a beautiful woman as well as a handsome man. 

As I've gotten older, I've started questioning what I want in terms of a relationship.  I'm not looking for a husband or the proverbial big house with 2.5 kids.  I'd rather have a partner with whom to share my life.  If they like me enough (and I don't grow tired of them), maybe we can grow old together.  I caught myself saying the other day "I hope I meet someone one day . . . ." instead of "the man of my dreams . . . ." 

I wonder if maybe the person I meet one day could be a woman.  Although I've never been a lesbian (minus one drunk experience in college that doesn't count), I'm certainly not opposed to having a woman as my partner.  I've had two different female acuaintances who, also in their 30s, fell in love with a woman after having been straight all their lives.  In both cases, the women met due through work. 

So, my question is purely philosophical at this point, as I haven't met anyone that strikes my fancy, but I'm just curious . . . . what are you thoughts?  Has anyone actually dealt with this or been in this situation?  Hopefully not TMI, but how does sex work in a case like this?  I mean, I'd need a manual to help me figure out what to do with a woman - "hold on honey, let me turn to page 46 to figure out what to do next". 

Just in case you're wondering - yes, I do tend to overthink things  :D

haha (not in the laughing at you type of way)..is this why you were semi-interested in the bisexuality question? I'm guessing this has been on your mind, at least a little.

When I was younger, I often wondered (worried, actually...) if I would be a lesbian (we're talking like..12-15 years old). I have had one sexual interaction with another female (my best girl friend), and I have kissed multiple girls (not sober..). I think I can be attracted to females..but I'm not bisexual (+ I'm perfectly married). I can find females attractive..but often don't get along with them (just in everyday relationships/friendships).

I think if YOU think it might be possible..and you're open to it..then that's fabulous! Just continue to keep an open mind..and the person of 'your dreams' might just be female! Who knows!? Now you have a much bigger "playing field," right?  ;)

Now, I'm most definitely not an expert....but I think the sex involves oral sex...and some additional...items (depending on preference, I would guess). Hey, at least you know what feels good to YOU, and it's not a totally different body part that you're dealing with..

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I didn't always recognize my attraction to bois.  I don't give too much thought to attractions, even now.  I don't know how much of it matters.  I'm bi and am hardly ever attracted to anyone, man or woman.  However, knowing my range of attraction helps me not miss out when someone incredible comes along.

For me, I knew I wasn't attracted to women in general.  It took a long time to figure out that I liked bois.  Just because you're attracted to men, it doesn't mean that you have to be attracted to all types of men.  Just because you're attracted to women, it doesn't mean that you have to be attracted to all types of women.  I'm about 85-95% attracted to men and 5-15% attracted to women, and the women have to look masculine.  There's no category you have to fit yourself into.

Have there been women that you have had even the slightest lust reaction to?

As for knowing what to do, I'm sure that if the right woman came along she'd be more than happy to show you the ropes.   :D   But really, it's all almost the same.

eta
I can find females attractive..but often don't get along with them (just in everyday relationships/friendships).

 
That's me, too.  Masculine women have more masculine personalities.  Most of my friends in life have been men, just because I get along more with how men are socialized.

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Have there been women that you have had even the slightest lust reaction to?

OMG. I get it now..it's me, isn't it Jewel?! I'M the reason that you started thinking about this! HAHA jk  ;D  ^-^

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Yep, AC - you've figured me out!!  ;)  And yes, your question did make me start wondering if others thought about being bisexual.

HH - honestly I haven't been sexually attracted to anyone in the past 4 or 5 years (last relationship included).  I'm just not really a sexual being; that being said, give me enough to drink and I'm interested in taking someone home.  In those drunk moments, both men and women have been attractive. 

I've had lesbian friends tell me that I'd quickly figure out what to do with a woman - and a few of them offer to show me how as well  ;D 

Of course, it doesn't help that I'm living in very South Texas which is not particularly open-minded and the few lesbians I've seen are VERY rough around the edges.  I'm not sure of my type (male or female) but they are definitely not it - lol!

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Of course, it doesn't help that I'm living in very South Texas which is not particularly open-minded and the few lesbians I've seen are VERY rough around the edges.

Maybe there are more there, but they aren't so "obvious" about it.  It's not important to me to have my friends know I like bois.  It'd be too hard to explain that I don't like all women.  I don't care if they know, but we don't talk about sex or relationships so it'd be totally random to bring up.  That said, you may know more refined women who are lesbian/bi, but they don't play it up because they live in a very South Texas town, or like me, it's just their personality.  I'm totally anti PDA so I'm not sure how anyone would tell for me.

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Hiya, Jewel. Hmm, I guess you could say I'm bicurious. The person I intend to grow old with is a man, but I do enjoy some sweet female eye candy. I've also had a couple of trysts with a gal friend years ago (once sober and once not so sober). I think I would have enjoyed it more if I had really been interested in her relationship wise. At the time though, it was more out of curiosity's sake.

Male or female...it really doesn't matter as long as you can have a caring, trusting, loving relationship that you deem fulfills what you seek in a partner. It's unfortunate you're in a place where you'd probably be ridiculed for your personal life decisions.

As for the physical aspect, it is touch and oral. Foreplay, if you will. Toys and/or devices can also come into play. It's not much different than being with a man. Just from speaking from my experience though, it was more gentle. Feminine. Men tend to be more rough and direct because, well, they're men.

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Good reading thread.

If you are vegan and sneak dairy once or a handful of time does that make you vegan?

Youre not bisexual youre intellectual.

Does a falling tree in the woods make a sound?

Waves hands and jumps up and down, I've been single for nearly two years... own my place. hahaha.

Were you not the one to use the "best of luck to you" line on me?

Im in funny mood this morning.

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;D  No, kannas, you weren't the one I was talking about in regards to "best of luck to you"!

Thanks for the feedback, I'll have lots to think about while I'm at work today :)

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If you are vegan and sneak dairy once or a handful of time does that make you vegan?

No.            Was this sarcasm? I think I missed something.

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as a big o'queer, i find this thread quite... i'm not sure.

well, the OP, that's fine. who you want to date can change over the life cycle. i know plenty of ex-breeders who jumped on the gay train. and i know a lot of bipeoples who look pretty "hetero" in the world. in terms of switching teams, it's fine. if you did start dating a woman, others would read you as lesbian, so you'll want to know that all kinds of "fun stuff" comes with that (questions, stares, sometimes harassment and the like). but the beauty of dating is that people see you as what you date (gay or straight), not as "bi", so be prepared for that. it is a pretty radical "change of scenery."

if you're looking for a partnership, women are totally the way to go. most of the one's i've dated totally come with a u-haul (which isn't what i want--yikes!) but, i think, being socialized as a female does lead many of us to think about partnering much differently than how men are socialized.

i guess what peeves me about some comments are the ones regarding "lesbian sex". HH's advice is the best, in that when you're gonna get busy, its just comes natural/she'll help you out. it wasn't ever anything i thought about when i "started out", nor did my last gf (i was the first woman she dated) seem to have issues "figuring it out". i mean to say, the beauty of being with a same sex partner is that the rules aren't really there for what "makes" sex. there is a great paper (i want to find it--waa!) called "lesbian sex" (i think) that talks about how, under the definition of sex, how women can't "have sex" because it is defined via the penis. of course, its a great critical thinker about how we define things, and we all know same sex couples can get it on. but what you do, how you do it, you'll develop your own definition of sex. and, quite honestly, i don't think "defining what is sex" is very important. once, when i started my grad program, a mess of us went to dinner when we found a night class was canceled and another girl (who harassed me a bit) started asking me if i had sex toys, how i had sex, etc and it was just very ignorant to me, esp considering she was NOTHING close to a friend.

and again, there is the SNL sketch a while back with the man who got wishes from a genie and wished for some "hot lesbian action" on his sofa or whatever. so the genie was like, sure, and he looked over and there were too mulleted flannel clad butch dykes rubbing each others feet. so, the moral is, whatever works for you, works for you! that's hot.  8) lol

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I always get nervous posting where I know bp is going to come along and be brilliant.

I don't know if this is relevant, but I'm attracted to men in general and a subset of women, but my attraction to the subset of women is absolutely intense and my attraction to men in general is lukewarm.  You may have a mix like that, too.

you did start dating a woman, others would read you as lesbian, so you'll want to know that all kinds of "fun stuff" comes with that (questions, stares, sometimes harassment and the like). but the beauty of dating is that people see you as what you date (gay or straight), not as "bi", so be prepared for that. it is a pretty radical "change of scenery."

I don't think you have to worry about this too much for a while, either.  I am naturally private when it comes to relationships.  I don't discuss them with my friends.  I've always been that way.  I figure I share everything else with the world, one thing gets to be mine.  For me, that one thing is a relationship.  So, there's no obligation to make an announcement to the world.  I don't hide the relationships but I don't exploit them for social credit either.  You're more valuable socially if you're in a relationship and I've always been pissed that my total value is based on someone else.  Although, I have friend that gets really worried about that.  He knows I'm seeing someone sometimes, but nobody knows who it is, so if I get murdered, no one will be able to direct the police to investigate that person.  Nice, huh?

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true, HH, rereading that quote makes me think that it was a little tight. but still, i have known a lot of women (not talking about you here, J, but like IRL ppls) who annoyed the shit out of me by being all "i'm bi, i love women, i'm bi" but had never had a relationship with a woman and was activity dating men. i guess, in theory, one can identify however they want and i don't care, but in this case, she seemed (to me at least) to be trying to get some "cred" or whatever for "being bi" when she didn't have a clue what it was like to walk in those shoes (i.e., knowing what it is like to be oppressed because of who you are with).

anyways, thats off topic a bit, but i'm rambling this morning. stupid holidays.

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as a big o'queer, i find this thread quite... i'm not sure.

i guess what peeves me about some comments are the ones regarding "lesbian sex".

What "peeved" you? I realize you didn't specifically say..probably for a reason..but I couldn't really figure it out (not that that's relevant since you're the one that said it). I didn't think that anything I said could be found offensive, but I guess once can never be sure.  ???

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true, HH, rereading that quote makes me think that it was a little tight. but still, i have known a lot of women (not talking about you here, J, but like IRL ppls) who annoyed the shit out of me by being all "i'm bi, i love women, i'm bi" but had never had a relationship with a woman and was activity dating men.

I think that's one of the reasons I don't announce it.  The only place I've ever talked about it is here.  I like women, but not equally, so I don't feel like being bi is something I can fully claim.  At the same time, I'm not going to deny my attraction to bois just because I don't fit into a category.  I don't talk about relationships IRL, but it's not about avoiding social condemnation.  I just can't.  I'm pretty unapologetic about who I am and I don't think my friends would be troubled by it, after the initial adjustment period.  In fact, among my friends, I might become more interesting.  I think that if I talked about relationships, I'd validate and legitimize them, and that gets into the whole other topic of my being relationship phobic.  In fact, I don't talk about my relationships here even.  I wouldn't mind talking to a counselor some day about it, since I know my commitment issues stem from my parents' disastrous marriage.

jewel - Don't worry about having to know if you're attracted to women, or "claiming" it, or not claiming it.  It's all about your journey.  If you meet a person and you have a connection that you'd like to explore, man or woman, then explore it.  Including women in the dating pool doesn't necessarily mean that you'll date more.

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HH - honestly I haven't been sexually attracted to anyone in the past 4 or 5 years (last relationship included).  I'm just not really a sexual being; .  I'm not sure of my type (male or female) but they are

Holy $h!t, maybe I'm not the only one...I pretty much never am attracted to anyone. Even in Jr high and highschool, when girls would get crushes, i never, ever did. Ive only dated like...5 men? and been kissed maybe a total of 10 times in my life (three of my past boyfriends have kissed me, nobody other than that.) I'm kinda a virgin...depending on how you define that (consensual vs non) And I'm 22...I'm just not really that interested in physical stuff...I kept thinking Id outgrow this stage, but have not.

Recently, I have asked myself the question "am i just not into men? Maybe, if I let myself be attracted to a woman Id feel differently?" I MOSTLY find when I do become aroused by someone, its a women. Does tthat make me a lesbien? Problem is, I'm HORRIFIED of non-virtual women, like panic attack in the girls dorm sort of horrified of women (both times i was sexually assaulted it was by women- including a gang rape.....I wonder if I should not say that sort of thing on line....but I feel safe with you guys.) So I just don't see THAT working out for me, either. People constantly just ASSUME I'm a lesbian...and the reason that bothers me is because if I look so much like a lesbian (whatever a lesbian looks like) then that could explain why guys never really approach me and why when guys DO approach me they seem more feminine than myself.

I'm attracted to gentle, masculine men, I suppose...at least thats what I imagine when I imagine myself with somebody. I really believe I'm either hetero or asexual, is that possible? I once knew a women who was 45 and still a virgin...she was never sexually assaulted...she just was not interested in ever having sex. Eventually she married her best friend (a man) but they never had sex and eventually he  told her he wanted to end the marriage.

While I would LIKE to be in a loving, healthy relationship...I'm not about to really "force it" either. I have decided that one of the main reasons I want a husband is to have someone to raise children with and grow old with and have adventures with. I realized though, I can do all that stuffing my own just fine. Or with friends, with my kids, whatever....and honestly, I really don't want to live to grow old...I'm hoping to kick it somewhere around sixty doing something heroic...so that eliminates THAt aspect...I dunno....sometimes I do want to be sexual with somebody...but the thought of ACTUALLY doing it with either gender...kinda turns me off... :-[

I think teh important thing, is to realize that there is no need to force yourself one way or the otehr. If you are content being single,thats awsome. My aunt will be getting merried anytime now, adn she is in her early 50s...so, I mean, maybe some of us are just REALLy late bloomers?

*Disclaimer* I also want to state that i know not all women/lesbians are violent. I realize SOME men are violent just as SOME lesbians and women are violent.

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Zealia - I think that it's all about operating in your comfort zone.  If not being in a relationship works for you, then it works.  Do you want a family because you've grown up with the thought that people become adults and have families, or is it something your inner self is pulled toward?  I thought about having a family, but I haven't figured out if it's conditioning or something I actually want.  I do know, that if you honestly want a family, then you can't wait to phase out of your aversion to relationships.  I tried that approach and I'm 36 and still relationship phobic.  I'm not sure what thearapy can do, since I haven't tried it myself.  I do know that working on myself and trying to be self aware, I went from not being able to date in my teens, to being promiscuous in my 20s (but only when trashed), to I don't know what in my 30s.  I'm still nowhere near being able to be in a relationship and my fertile egg years are winding down.  If it's something you want, find help that works for you, or do online dating and go on a lot of first dates until you realize that you're in control, or something.  I know it's not that easy, but if you really want kids, waiting passively for the attraction to come, when your first experiences have been life-changingly traumatic, might mean that you lose out on an opportunity to find out that you can be happy in a relationship - if a relationship is what you want.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with choosing to not be in a relationship.  It's your journey.

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I don't date. At all. And I never have - seems weird for an almost 20 something university student, but whatever. It's just never happened for me. I don't doubt my sexuality - I find some women very beautiful but am mostly attracted to men (I think it's all a spectrum though... we can like women and men the same, not the same, one person over another, etc. etc.). If a woman ever indicated interest in me, I'd definitely gve it a go (if I found myself attracted or connected to her in any way) - and I have a feeling it would be easier than trying to develop a relationship with a guy.

I've always thought that being a lesbian might be easier... But I guess it really all depends on the person you end up with, doesn't it? I think that's what it comes down to - you just connect with someone, woman or man or whatever in between.

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i personally agree with the kinsey scale, for me, thats how i see myself, shifting back and forth from one side of the scale to the other, never really going to the extremes of heterosexual or homosexual, but just shifting around in the middle somewhere.  it helps me to understand that i dont need to put myself in a category, i dont know what category i would be, sexuality is so varied.

i hope you find what you're looking for!

and for the people that aren't attracted to anyone, i've met people who are happily asexual. 

as for sex stuff, i would think heterosexual sex would be so much more daunting.  all these new parts that you've never seen before.  who knows what to do with them.  hehe.  but if you're comfortable with your partner, then things work themselves out as long as good communication is at the top of the importance list.

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I wish I knew what suits me best.  I also wonder if I'm fighting the fact that I may be asexual and single for the rest of my life.  Maybe that's why I'm looking for a partner.  I'd love to have a best friend that I got to live with forever.  I love my best friend (mind you, she's happily married and the mother of 2) but she and I truly understand each other.  That's what I want. 

I've jokingly made the comment about not knowing what to do with a woman when I've had conversations with my female friends (both lesbian and straight) about the idea of being in a relationship with a woman.  Truth be told, I'm so uncomfortable with sex that I don't know that I'm particularly good at it when I've been with men.  I honestly don't know that I've ever had a true orgasm, but I sure can fake it pretty well - lol!  (I realize that this now means I will NEVER have the possibility of dating anyone from vegweb).  It's not an issue of straight sex or lesbian sex, it's an issue of sex itself (VHZ, you're not alone!)

I've been in therapy over the course of the past few years and it was incredibly helpful in getting over my past relationship with an alcoholic, drug user and my issues with my mom's drink, etc etc etc.  I realized that I have to quit building a wall up every time the opportunity to date comes around and I need to stop looking for that "perfect man" because he doesn't exist.  Therapy was helpful, but it certainly didn't fix me or make it any easier for me to date. 

Hmmm . . . maybe I just need to be content with having a niece and a nephew and being the crazy cat lady as I get older.  The neighborhood kids could think I was a witch or something cool like that ;)

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I wish I had some wonderfully sage words of wisdom for you. Hmm... I guess I would just say to keep an open mind and an open heart. Love seems to find people when they least expect it. You will know when the right person comes along, whether it's a man or a woman. In the meantime, just keep on being sweet you. :)

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