Posted by Anonymous on Oct 11, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
What can be done about religious cults where a guy has alot of wives? Should the law step in? What can it do?
Posted by Storm on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Sep 2006 · 4238 posts
It's just plain illogical. If anyone should have multiple spouses it should be women. Think of the economic benefits of having multiple working husbands bringing you home their bacon. :)
I had a husband once....and one was quite enough! Somehow I just don't think the economic benefits would be worth the aggravation!! ;D
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Posted by Tkitty96 on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since May 2006 · 1789 posts
I still don't know why polygamy is illegal.
I always tell my husband he's welcome to bring home as many sister wives as he'd like as long as they are: hot vegan willing to help with housework
That's what I always tell mine!! He hates it when I say that.
Of course, I am against any situation in which women, children, or men for that matter are being abused. But I do not have any problem with the general idea of polygamy. If a guy wants to be married to many consenting, adult women I don't care. As long as everybody in that situation is an adult, conesenting, and more or less happy with it, I don't see why it's a problem.
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Posted by lisaanddini on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since May 2007 · 2179 posts
Just to recap my fellow vegwebbers I'm sure some vegwebbers missed it for whatever reason but I did state it was about men having alot of wives in my first sentence though.
And just want to clarify something this post isn't about religion it's about those men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them.
To me I think the police should arrest those men. I think it's wrong.
It seems like people are talking about different situations. Can you maybe link the article or whatever talking about these cults where men force women to join? I haven't heard of this. Sometimes I feel like I live in a little bubble without any knowledge of the outside world!!!
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Posted by tanevab on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Jan 2007 · 942 posts
I still don't know why polygamy is illegal.
I always tell my husband he's welcome to bring home as many sister wives as he'd like as long as they are: hot vegan willing to help with housework
;)
Now that's what I'm talking about ;D ;D ;D Although I'm sure my BF couldn't handle it. heehee
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Posted by tanevab on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Jan 2007 · 942 posts
Just to recap my fellow vegwebbers I'm sure some vegwebbers missed it for whatever reason but I did state it was about men having alot of wives in my first sentence though.
And just want to clarify something this post isn't about religion it's about those men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them.
To me I think the police should arrest those men. I think it's wrong.
It seems like people are talking about different situations. Can you maybe link the article or whatever talking about these cults where men force women to join? I haven't heard of this. Sometimes I feel like I live in a little bubble without any knowledge of the outside world!!!
Yeah there are two different things being talked about here I think.
1. having multi spouses-IMO fine as long as everyone is a consenting adult
and
2. forcing women and children into an abusive situation- BAD
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Posted by Fee on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Aug 2007 · 499 posts
The only thing I can think of would be like African tribes where the women are married off by their fathers, sometimes it's against their will. I've never really heard of anything like that happening in the US...
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Posted by lisaanddini on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since May 2007 · 2179 posts
Thank you vigilant20, I hadn't heard about this is. It is a very sad and disturbing story. I think everyone here would agree that it was wrong. It looks like both the husband and the religious leader will be sentenced though, so apparently the government did do something.
I just want to add that this is an isolated case, and I don't think that it reflects on ALL religions and cultures that believe in polygamy. If consenting adults are involved, I see no problem with it.
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Posted by Fee on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Aug 2007 · 499 posts
Those are all stories about the same guy, and to me it doesn't sound like his crime was polygamy, it was raping a 14 year old girl One wife or many, marrying a 14 year old will never be legal for anyone, so I don't think he's a good representative for all polygamists in the United States.
I meant to say something along the lines of a religion where this regularly happens...women being forced into marriage with men
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Posted by Tkitty96 on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since May 2006 · 1789 posts
I'd like to remind everyone that there are members of this board who belong to the particular group which has been deemed a "cult" in this thread, so please remember to be respectful.
A note about this:
Polygamy (Plural Marriage) The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. At certain times and for His specific purposes, God, through His prophets, has directed the practice of plural marriage (sometimes called polygamy), which means one man having more than one living wife at the same time. In obedience to direction from God, Latter-day Saints followed this practice for about 50 years during the 1800s but officially ceased the practice of such marriages after the Manifesto was issued by President Woodruff in 1890. Since that time, plural marriage has not been approved by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and any member adopting this practice is subject to losing his or her membership in the Church. (my emphasis)
Posted by Meggs on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Jun 2007 · 3572 posts
Yes, the article(s) vigilant posted the link to are about one event, but the "cult" that this man lead was supposedly an offshoot of the Mormon church/religion, but as tkitty pointed out, the church does not promote this.
It's really quite disturbing and interesting, the whole Warren Jeffs thing, in my opinion. Interesting because it's so foreign to most people (myself included; I'd never heard of such a thing until a few years ago when this was initially investigated) and disturbing on many levels.
It is not, however, polygamy in the "consenting adults" sense of the word. It's a twist on that.
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Posted by JessaCita on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Nov 2006 · 1808 posts
Those are all stories about the same guy, and to me it doesn't sound like his crime was polygamy, it was raping a 14 year old girl One wife or many, marrying a 14 year old will never be legal for anyone, so I don't think he's a good representative for all polygamists in the United States.
Exactly! I wholeheartedly agree. I will never agree with making a child (and a 14-year-old is definitely a child)--or making anyone, for that matter--marry a grown man. That makes me sick & makes my heart ache--especially because it was so against her will. Also, personally, I would never want to partake in a polygamist marriage. For me, my ideal is much more romantic & based on a partnership between just two people. But I don't think that it makes it wrong for others to engage in a relationship like this if it works for them, makes them happy & they're all consenting adults. Once it's not consensual, I think that changes it into an entirely different issue. But as long as it truly feels right for the people involved, it doesn't bother me at all. It really is a cultural thing.
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Posted by Anonymous on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
The only thing I can think of would be like African tribes where the women are married off by their fathers, sometimes it's against their will. I've never really heard of anything like that happening in the US...
I thought I heard there's alot of them in Utah.. I thought I heard there's some in other states to just a few though but I'm not sure on that. Don't quote me on that part.
Posted by Anonymous on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
Just to recap my fellow vegwebbers I'm sure some vegwebbers missed it for whatever reason but I did state it was about men having alot of wives in my first sentence though.
And just want to clarify something this post isn't about religion it's about those men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them.
To me I think the police should arrest those men. I think it's wrong.
It seems like people are talking about different situations. Can you maybe link the article or whatever talking about these cults where men force women to join? I haven't heard of this. Sometimes I feel like I live in a little bubble without any knowledge of the outside world!!!
Try to catch some of the tv shows like Oprah, Montell Williams etc. Sometimes they have the women on there that broke free from those groups talking about those experiences.
Posted by lisaanddini on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since May 2007 · 2179 posts
Sorry, I don't watch tv, I guess that's why I don't know what everyone is talking about sometimes.
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Posted by admin on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Apr 2003 · 167 posts
I've created two topics, startaurus' "men forcing women into cults" and a separate topic for "polygamy and religion" discussion. Please note that the term "cult" has many definitions including "a term designating a cohesive group of people (generally, but not exclusively a relatively small and recently founded religious movement)" and "refers to the organisation that develops around an abusive guru, and which enforces the abuser's authority, usually by means of an inner circle of lieutenants or close disciples who have taken on the abusive guru's dysfunctional sadomasochistic". See: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=3bO&defl=en&q=define:cult&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title for other definitions. startaurus, it would help the discussion in this topic for you to clarify which definition of "cult" that you are using.
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Posted by Anonymous on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Dec 1969 · 11789 posts
I did Yvette. I stated about the men forcing those women.
Posted by admin on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Apr 2003 · 167 posts
What you stated was "men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them". Is it correct then for everyone to assume that you are talking about the kind of cult as in "refers to the organisation that develops around an abusive guru, and which enforces the abuser's authority, usually by means of an inner circle of lieutenants or close disciples who have taken on the abusive guru's dysfunctional sadomasochistic"? Maybe it's obvious, but it might not be obvious to everyone.
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Posted by AutemOx on Oct 12, 2007 · Member since Sep 2007 · 184 posts
just because things are illegal, doesnt necessarily mean they are wrong
True true true! :) :) :)
Marriage is awful anyways. It seems all these problems with gay marriage as well as polygamy stem from the way marriage is treated both as a matter of state and a matter of religion. :-X
Okay I take it back, marriage isn't awful, ::) its beautiful.
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Posted by admin on Oct 13, 2007 · Member since Apr 2003 · 167 posts
Together again. Okay, that was too confusing having the posts separated. I've merged the topics back into each other again. Yes, this can be a very sensitive topic(s) when discussing polygamy in a topic about "religious cults where a guy has alot of wives". Since startaurus clarified later that she meant for this topic be to about "men forcing women", if anyone wishes to continue to discuss polygamy in general (unrelated to men forcing women), please start a new topic.
It's just plain illogical. If anyone should have multiple spouses it should be women. Think of the economic benefits of having multiple working husbands bringing you home their bacon. :)
I had a husband once....and one was quite enough! Somehow I just don't think the economic benefits would be worth the aggravation!! ;D
I still don't know why polygamy is illegal.
I always tell my husband he's welcome to bring home as many sister wives as he'd like as long as they are:
hot
vegan
willing to help with housework
That's what I always tell mine!! He hates it when I say that.
Of course, I am against any situation in which women, children, or men for that matter are being abused. But I do not have any problem with the general idea of polygamy. If a guy wants to be married to many consenting, adult women I don't care. As long as everybody in that situation is an adult, conesenting, and more or less happy with it, I don't see why it's a problem.
Just to recap my fellow vegwebbers I'm sure some vegwebbers missed it for whatever reason but I did state it was about men having alot of wives in my first sentence though.
And just want to clarify something this post isn't about religion it's about those men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them.
To me I think the police should arrest those men. I think it's wrong.
It seems like people are talking about different situations. Can you maybe link the article or whatever talking about these cults where men force women to join? I haven't heard of this. Sometimes I feel like I live in a little bubble without any knowledge of the outside world!!!
I still don't know why polygamy is illegal.
I always tell my husband he's welcome to bring home as many sister wives as he'd like as long as they are:
hot
vegan
willing to help with housework
;)
Now that's what I'm talking about ;D ;D ;D Although I'm sure my BF couldn't handle it. heehee
Just to recap my fellow vegwebbers I'm sure some vegwebbers missed it for whatever reason but I did state it was about men having alot of wives in my first sentence though.
And just want to clarify something this post isn't about religion it's about those men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them.
To me I think the police should arrest those men. I think it's wrong.
It seems like people are talking about different situations. Can you maybe link the article or whatever talking about these cults where men force women to join? I haven't heard of this. Sometimes I feel like I live in a little bubble without any knowledge of the outside world!!!
Yeah there are two different things being talked about here I think.
1. having multi spouses-IMO fine as long as everyone is a consenting adult
and
2. forcing women and children into an abusive situation- BAD
The only thing I can think of would be like African tribes where the women are married off by their fathers, sometimes it's against their will. I've never really heard of anything like that happening in the US...
Thank you vigilant20, I hadn't heard about this is. It is a very sad and disturbing story. I think everyone here would agree that it was wrong. It looks like both the husband and the religious leader will be sentenced though, so apparently the government did do something.
I just want to add that this is an isolated case, and I don't think that it reflects on ALL religions and cultures that believe in polygamy. If consenting adults are involved, I see no problem with it.
Those are all stories about the same guy, and to me it doesn't sound like his crime was polygamy, it was raping a 14 year old girl
One wife or many, marrying a 14 year old will never be legal for anyone, so I don't think he's a good representative for all polygamists in the United States.
I meant to say something along the lines of a religion where this regularly happens...women being forced into marriage with men
I'd like to remind everyone that there are members of this board who belong to the particular group which has been deemed a "cult" in this thread, so please remember to be respectful.
A note about this:
Polygamy (Plural Marriage)
The family is ordained of God. Marriage between man and woman is essential to His eternal plan. At certain times and for His specific purposes, God, through His prophets, has directed the practice of plural marriage (sometimes called polygamy), which means one man having more than one living wife at the same time. In obedience to direction from God, Latter-day Saints followed this practice for about 50 years during the 1800s but officially ceased the practice of such marriages after the Manifesto was issued by President Woodruff in 1890. Since that time, plural marriage has not been approved by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and any member adopting this practice is subject to losing his or her membership in the Church. (my emphasis)
from: The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints website: http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/menuitem.3933737ad2ff28132eb22a86942826a0/?vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&locale=0&sourceId=9887ec6f164b2110VgnVCM100000176f620a____
Yes, the article(s) vigilant posted the link to are about one event, but the "cult" that this man lead was supposedly an offshoot of the Mormon church/religion, but as tkitty pointed out, the church does not promote this.
It's really quite disturbing and interesting, the whole Warren Jeffs thing, in my opinion. Interesting because it's so foreign to most people (myself included; I'd never heard of such a thing until a few years ago when this was initially investigated) and disturbing on many levels.
It is not, however, polygamy in the "consenting adults" sense of the word. It's a twist on that.
Those are all stories about the same guy, and to me it doesn't sound like his crime was polygamy, it was raping a 14 year old girl
One wife or many, marrying a 14 year old will never be legal for anyone, so I don't think he's a good representative for all polygamists in the United States.
Exactly! I wholeheartedly agree. I will never agree with making a child (and a 14-year-old is definitely a child)--or making anyone, for that matter--marry a grown man. That makes me sick & makes my heart ache--especially because it was so against her will. Also, personally, I would never want to partake in a polygamist marriage. For me, my ideal is much more romantic & based on a partnership between just two people. But I don't think that it makes it wrong for others to engage in a relationship like this if it works for them, makes them happy & they're all consenting adults. Once it's not consensual, I think that changes it into an entirely different issue. But as long as it truly feels right for the people involved, it doesn't bother me at all. It really is a cultural thing.
The only thing I can think of would be like African tribes where the women are married off by their fathers, sometimes it's against their will. I've never really heard of anything like that happening in the US...
I thought I heard there's alot of them in Utah.. I thought I heard there's some in other states to just a few though but I'm not sure on that. Don't quote me on that part.
Just to recap my fellow vegwebbers I'm sure some vegwebbers missed it for whatever reason but I did state it was about men having alot of wives in my first sentence though.
And just want to clarify something this post isn't about religion it's about those men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them.
To me I think the police should arrest those men. I think it's wrong.
It seems like people are talking about different situations. Can you maybe link the article or whatever talking about these cults where men force women to join? I haven't heard of this. Sometimes I feel like I live in a little bubble without any knowledge of the outside world!!!
Try to catch some of the tv shows like Oprah, Montell Williams etc. Sometimes they have the women on there that broke free from those groups talking about those experiences.
Sorry, I don't watch tv, I guess that's why I don't know what everyone is talking about sometimes.
I've created two topics, startaurus' "men forcing women into cults" and a separate topic for "polygamy and religion" discussion. Please note that the term "cult" has many definitions including "a term designating a cohesive group of people (generally, but not exclusively a relatively small and recently founded religious movement)" and "refers to the organisation that develops around an abusive guru, and which enforces the abuser's authority, usually by means of an inner circle of lieutenants or close disciples who have taken on the abusive guru's dysfunctional sadomasochistic". See: http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&hs=3bO&defl=en&q=define:cult&sa=X&oi=glossary_definition&ct=title
for other definitions. startaurus, it would help the discussion in this topic for you to clarify which definition of "cult" that you are using.
I did Yvette. I stated about the men forcing those women.
What you stated was "men forcing women into those cults like everybody calls them". Is it correct then for everyone to assume that you are talking about the kind of cult as in "refers to the organisation that develops around an abusive guru, and which enforces the abuser's authority, usually by means of an inner circle of lieutenants or close disciples who have taken on the abusive guru's dysfunctional sadomasochistic"? Maybe it's obvious, but it might not be obvious to everyone.
just because things are illegal, doesnt necessarily mean they are wrong
True true true! :) :) :)
Marriage is awful anyways. It seems all these problems with gay marriage as well as polygamy stem from the way marriage is treated both as a matter of state and a matter of religion. :-X
Okay I take it back, marriage isn't awful, ::) its beautiful.
Together again. Okay, that was too confusing having the posts separated. I've merged the topics back into each other again. Yes, this can be a very sensitive topic(s) when discussing polygamy in a topic about "religious cults where a guy has alot of wives". Since startaurus clarified later that she meant for this topic be to about "men forcing women", if anyone wishes to continue to discuss polygamy in general (unrelated to men forcing women), please start a new topic.
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