would you eat meat if it were humanely raised and humanely slaughtered?
Posted by longer_look on Mar 04, 2010 · Member since Feb 2010 · 369 posts
if there is such a thing as "humanely slaughtered".
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if there is such a thing as "humanely slaughtered".
I have been a vegan, not been a vegan, and been a vegan again. I find that most of my concerns about meat are centred on factory farms. Factory farms not only treat animals very inhumanely, they raise them in an unnatural and unsustainable way which puts human health and the health of the envirornment at risk. I am not the sort of person who has ever tried to convert people from an omni diet, but I do encourage people who eat meat to buy it from a local, organic, and sustainable source. I often feel that many of the concerns vegetarians have regarding meat would be addressed by a slow food movement where animals are pasture-raised on a vegetarian diet on local, organic farms. For an example, there are a lot of problems associated with cows being fed grain and animal-byproducts. These problems would be resolved if the cows were allowed to graze on grass naturally.
However, what you are asking is is IF they are humanely raised and slaughtered. In our current system, we have a tendency to exploit. This extends not just to animals, but to people and the environment. People seem to care little how their actions affect others, so long as they continue to profit and thrive. I hope we can move away from that, and embody a more compassionate stance. I peronsally don't feel that killing for food is wrong. It may be a sad reality if it's necessary for an animal or a person to kill for food, but it is not wrong. I think most other vegans and vegetarians defend their food choices by stating that we are able to eat a nutrionally balanced diet without killing for food and that is what makes killing unnecessary and then, perhaps because it is now unnecessary, also wrong. Those people will probably always choose to be vegan.
My concern is mostly the unnecessary abuse of animals. Killing them for food may be considered necessary, but we are intelligent and emotional enough to empathise with their pain so I think most could agree we should avoid causing them more harm than necessary whether they are vegan, vegetarian, or omni. Therein, I do think that there may be such a thing as humane slaughter. Killing for food as necessary, but with avoidance of pain. Most people do not want to think they are responsible for causing more pain than they had to and they do avoid it.
I don't know if I would consider eating meat again at this point, but regardless of what choices I make in the future I hope to continue boycotting factory farms and advocating the humane treatment of animals. Even if we eat animals or animal products, we do not have to treat them as commodities incapable of thought and feeling.
I see it as a continuum:
hideous/ bad/ medium/ good/ best
(what we're doing now/ everyone eating meat 3X+ per day, but creatures treated as creatures vs inanimates while alive/ people eat mostly plants, with occasional animal foods from 'humanely raised' animals/ people eat vegetarian, with eggs & milk from responsibly raised & respectfully treated creatures/ people eat vegan food, sustainably produced)
So: the current norm = the worst we could possibly do... almost ANYthing else is better, tho there's still prob'ly room for improvement... and even if I don't agree with the logic, I think it's a *positive* "slipperey slope" dealio... once you stipulate that it matters how you treat them, then it's easy to see other creatures as worth NOT eating... idk, I just tend to see positivity in small steps, even if the result isn't perferct yet.
I don't consider euthanasia as slaughter. It's a personal choice.
To clarify what I meant - Slaughter is defined by violence. Euthanasia is a choice that someone makes one behalf of another being out of love and compassion. Slaughter, on the other hand, doesn't give the beings who are killed a chance to choose.
Nice responses. To answer the question - hell no I wouldn't eat meat.
I'm in agreement with Miss Rose! But, another factor for me, and y'all may think it's ridiculous, is I think even the meat eaters might try eating more "mean" animals for food sources. Like cranky old roosters, alligators, and crawfish. Especially crawfish. They are angry, hateful little bugs who would definitely eat me, if they had the chance. And grasshoppers who attack my garden. I can't eat them, but when we grill the tofu & veggies, my 9 year old grills grasshoppers. She's awesome, and I know there's nothing evil about her food choices. She does kill the grasshoppers humanely.
And grasshoppers who attack my garden. I can't eat them, but when we grill the tofu & veggies, my 9 year old grills grasshoppers. She's awesome, and I know there's nothing evil about her food choices. She does kill the grasshoppers humanely.
Ewww WTF?!?! Also, how do you humanely kill a grasshopper?
She does kill the grasshoppers humanely.
Ewww WTF?!?! Also, how do you humanely kill a grasshopper?
... or... anything?
Excluding euthanasia, in cases of hopelessness for recovery/ intractable severe pain/ etc, I have a hard time accepting the premise of humane killing... isn't that just what folks say to make 'killing in the absence of need' sound less ethically problematic? isn't killing something when you don't have to *intrinsically* inhumane?! idk, that's just how it seems to me...
Have you tried cayenne and garlic 'tea' sprayed onto your plants, to repel insects? usually works pretty well...
I'm in agreement with Miss Rose! But, another factor for me, and y'all may think it's ridiculous, is I think even the meat eaters might try eating more "mean" animals for food sources. Like cranky old roosters, alligators, and crawfish. Especially crawfish. They are angry, hateful little bugs who would definitely eat me, if they had the chance. And grasshoppers who attack my garden. I can't eat them, but when we grill the tofu & veggies, my 9 year old grills grasshoppers. She's awesome, and I know there's nothing evil about her food choices. She does kill the grasshoppers humanely.
"Cranky old roosters" are still animals with their own life intentions just the same as any other animal on earth. Same with alligators and crawfish. We have no right to end their lives, even if we JUDGE their lifestyles to be one we don't agree with. Alligators maintain a balances ecosystem. They're not "mean," they are surviving. To anthropomorphize animals and give them attitudes and characteristics is erroneous and dangerous. Do cute baby seals deserve life more than a mean, scaly crocodile? Both just want to live and to reproduce. Who are we to decide who lives and who dies based on how they look or their personalities?
Grasshoppers exist for a reason, and believe it or not, it's not for your child to kill. They existed long before your child was born, and they will continue surviving long after.
No. I agree with most posters - is there really such a thing as humanely slaughtered? I recently took my children to a farm, I guess it's called a petting farm, to interact with the animals there. Seeing the turkeys, chickens, pigs, cows, sheep and all kinds of other animals was really amazing. It's one thing to read about how intelligent and social they are, it's another to experience it.
Looking into their eyes and seeing how they responded to being petted and talked to was quite an experience for a city girl. It completely reinforced all my beliefs. How anyone could go away from petting a pig and wanting bacon is beyond me. Anyway, the thought of any of those living breathing animals being killed made me so sad. Even if there was a way to "humanely" kill an animal, you're still taking it's life away.
(BTW, these animals were treated quite well. They had living conditions to suit their needs and sizes and were very well cared for. Seemed important to add.)
Have you tried cayenne and garlic 'tea' sprayed onto your plants, to repel insects? usually works pretty well...
No! Recipe please :)
isn't that just what folks say to make 'killing in the absence of need' sound less ethically problematic? isn't killing something when you don't have to *intrinsically* inhumane?! idk, that's just how it seems to me...
Where I try to be more open-minded is that, althought it may not be completely necessary to kill, some people may feel that their best option for reaching optimum health may include some creatures we'd consider sentient such as seafood for instance. I have read studies that suggest fish oil supplements can be extremely beneficial for thsoe suffering with depression, for an example. This would be because depression is more likely with someone who's DHA levels are low. Although many people can get sufficient Omega-3s on a vegan or vegetarian diet, some people, for unknown reasons, are not very efficient at creating DHA from Omega-3. This is why fish is crucial, since their Omega-3s are longer chains which contain actual DHA not just the prerequiste. Some people may also argue that a vegan diet would be too restrictive of calcium and Vitamin D sources.
This is where I think we need to be realistic. Although a veg diet may be appropriate for us, other people may not think the same way. Therefor, we need to keep in mind that diet is a very personal choice. If we want to make positive change, we need to do it in a way that does not attempt to force people into doing things exactly as we do.
BTW, I know that's straying a bit from the original question posted.
No. I agree with most posters - is there really such a thing as humanely slaughtered? I recently took my children to a farm, I guess it's called a petting farm, to interact with the animals there. Seeing the turkeys, chickens, pigs, cows, sheep and all kinds of other animals was really amazing. It's one thing to read about how intelligent and social they are, it's another to experience it.
Looking into their eyes and seeing how they responded to being petted and talked to was quite an experience for a city girl. It completely reinforced all my beliefs. How anyone could go away from petting a pig and wanting bacon is beyond me. Anyway, the thought of any of those living breathing animals being killed made me so sad. Even if there was a way to "humanely" kill an animal, you're still taking it's life away.
(BTW, these animals were treated quite well. They had living conditions to suit their needs and sizes and were very well cared for. Seemed important to add.)
Here I can empathise- I've been around chickens, goats, pigs, cows, etc. many times in my life. I've always felt especially close with chickens since chickens are so docile. They'll always come sit in my lap looking to be picked up and petted. It would have broken my heart to hear that anyone would want to kill my pet. Yes, I had a pet chicken named Hannah who passed away and I was very sad. I missed her presence in the garden. But even as sad as it is when someone dies, it doesn't mean that it cannot be done humanely when done intently. Inhumane slaughter is violent and senseless. Animals can be killed in a way that IS humane even when the idea of their death strikes us as sad. I think that some people here need to differentiate between the two.
I originally became a veggie when I was kid and I felt differnetly then because my experiences with death were not the same. Back then, death was something that you could avoid. Death only happened if you got sick or something bad happened. In that light, killing something that lived seemed a monstrous thing to do. Evil and cruel. But today I have come to accept that death is a natural part of life. It is inevitable. You cannot avoid it. Therein, my feelings have changed somewhat towards the subject. It does not really matter much if I die today or later. The results are all the same. Death will always be something we avoid, but it is also not a horrible thing even though thinking of it makes us uncomfortable. In this way, killing without trying to inflict pain is not so horribly monstrous.
I hear ya, Rose, and I'm sure we're more alike than different... for me, tho, personally, it keeps comin' back to this: the right to kill other stuff begins and ends with need. I'm not saying what that means for anyone else... but to me, the grasshopper thing is... odd. And I personally DON'T seem to need to kill chickens or whatever -- 'humanely' or otherwise, whatever that means -- so I don't. (shrug) Human diversity is enormous... but I can do without it, so I do; and (I suspect) so could many others who think they can't...
AML, I'm on gardening hiatus this summer (moving! argh) and many of my books are packed away... I got the garlic/ cayenne pest-control tea thing from either 'Postage Stamp Garden' or 'Square Foot Gardening', and will share as soon as I dig my books back out again once we move! :)
Thank you HCM <3 I have been using water + dish soap and it seems to work too :)
I hear ya, Rose, and I'm sure we're more alike than different... for me, tho, personally, it keeps comin' back to this: the right to kill other stuff begins and ends with need. I'm not saying what that means for anyone else... but to me, the grasshopper thing is... odd. And I personally DON'T seem to need to kill chickens or whatever -- 'humanely' or otherwise, whatever that means -- so I don't. (shrug) Human diversity is enormous... but I can do without it, so I do; and (I suspect) so could many others who think they can't...
AML, I'm on gardening hiatus this summer (moving! argh) and many of my books are packed away... I got the garlic/ cayenne pest-control tea thing from either 'Postage Stamp Garden' or 'Square Foot Gardening', and will share as soon as I dig my books back out again once we move! :)
I can't remember the entire conversation at this point, but I do agree with you. I just try to think of things from other perspectives, because I don't think it's realistic to expect everyone to always agree with me and do the same things. That's where I'd rather try to encourage humane slaughter than no slaughter. There will likely always be people who will eat meat. If I tell them to do otherwise, they probably won't listen. So in the very least I can advocate for better conditions on farms for animals. As for the grasshopper thing, that wasn't me. That was someone else. I don't think I supplied a response to that, but if you'd like one: The idea of it makes me cringe. And there are certain creatures that, imo, cannot be humanely slaughtered. How could you humanely kill a crab for instance? I would put grasshoppers here. Now, there are a lot of reasonable arguments for eating bugs. Compared to eating meat, it's healthier and it's waaay better for the environment. It surprises me that people would be willing to eat all sorts of animals but not bugs. We are most closely related to chimps and they eat bugs! But as for me personally, would I ever eat a grasshopper? Hell no. The thought is nauseating. I can just imagine the crunchiness of it. No thanks, not for me. :ladybug:
Thank you HCM <3 I have been using water + dish soap and it seems to work too :)
What bugs is it that you've got again? I'm having a horrid time with aphids on my eggplant and pepper, and I've just been rinsing them off with dishsoap and water too. It works, but they keep coming back!!!! Has the cayenne-garlic worked any better for you? Or have you found any new solutions?
Thank you HCM <3 I have been using water + dish soap and it seems to work too :)
What bugs is it that you've got again? I'm having a horrid time with aphids on my eggplant and pepper, and I've just been rinsing them off with dishsoap and water too. It works, but they keep coming back!!!! Has the cayenne-garlic worked any better for you? Or have you found any new solutions?
Well that was awhile ago and I believe they were aphids, i don't remember them coming back, but I don't have any veggies growing currently as it just didn't work with my shallow planters sorry i'm not much help :(
Thank you HCM <3 I have been using water + dish soap and it seems to work too :)
What bugs is it that you've got again? I'm having a horrid time with aphids on my eggplant and pepper, and I've just been rinsing them off with dishsoap and water too. It works, but they keep coming back!!!! Has the cayenne-garlic worked any better for you? Or have you found any new solutions?
Well that was awhile ago and I believe they were aphids, i don't remember them coming back, but I don't have any veggies growing currently as it just didn't work with my shallow planters sorry i'm not much help :(
Well, I guess I'll have to try it myself :)
My answer to the question of eating "humanely slaughtered" animals is the same as to the question "Would I eat my humanely treated and humanely slaughtered pet? Or any dog, cat, or parakeet? If it is so humanely treated, then what's the problem?
Clearly, it's not a question of humane treatment, but of ethical living.
Absolutely not because it still involves killing. Also, killing is very rarely a non stressful event, no matter how "humane" but the truth is, even "humanely" raised animals are still killed the regular way...via standard slaughter houses.
I especially don't eat meat because it involves killing of innocent beings who want to live. I believe that killing creates a negative atmosphere and harms us all and is just wrong. I want a peaceful life/community and planet and in order to get there we have to stop the killing. I also think eating meat harms us on a spiritual/mental/emotional level. I don't want to go there.
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