To my homosexual friends:
Posted by Allychristine on Nov 05, 2009 · Member since Dec 2007 · 15438 posts
1. Does it bother/annoy/etc. you when people use the term "gay" to mean "stupid"? It's always bothered me, since the very first time I heard it used!
2. Does it bother/annoy/etc. you when people use what they think to be gay voices and mannerisms..in a joking manner? I've noticed a lot of my co workers (straight males and females) do this. I'm just like... ???
its ok to insult dumb people though, because half the time they are so dumb they dont even realize you are insulting them...
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure she meant it's pejorative because 'dumb' is meant to mean a mute/person who can't talk, and is being used to mean stupid.
I think (/hope) he was being sarcastic :/
if not that's totally gay...
win.
and yes hespedal, i was being sarcastic. if i wasnt that would be pretty horrible haha
its ok to insult dumb people though, because half the time they are so dumb they dont even realize you are insulting them...
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure she meant it's pejorative because 'dumb' is meant to mean a mute/person who can't talk, and is being used to mean stupid.
I think (/hope) he was being sarcastic :/
if not that's totally gay...
win.
and yes hespedal, i was being sarcastic. if i wasnt that would be pretty horrible haha
it's nice to at long last get some recognition, it's as if when I post sometimes, the vegwebbers forget how to laugh :(
Out of curiosity, would people say it's a trait of homosexual males to generally be camp?
I'm not saying all, or even most, are. But would you say that camp men tend to be homosexual?
And would anyone here consider wearing tights as being camp?
asos, i laughed, i don't don't greet every joke with an LOL.
i'm afraid of getting a high post count.
what the hell is camp?
I had to go look up "camp" in urbandictionary, haha.
I wouldn't say most homosexual men are "camp," but that the effeminate/flamboyant gay men are just so much more obvious. And maybe if you happen to be an effeminate gay man, you don't bother with trying to "blend in" as straight. I've known (to my knowledge) about just as many not-obvious gay men as effeminate ones.
For effeminate = definitely gay, probably not, but how could you ever know? I know some pretty stereotypically "gay" guys who are apparently straight or even married. Could they be gay in actuality? Sure. But there's also the possibility that there's just as much of a spectrum of "masculinity" among men as there is with "femininity" among women, and we're just not used to it because it's generally not socially acceptable for a guy to be seriously and publicly effeminate.
I'm not sure if male homosexuality is inherently feminine... is it really more feminine for two guys to be in a relationship, or is it more feminine (for the guy) to be in a relationship with a woman? I know that at least during the warrior class/samurai time in Japan, having a relationship with a female as a young man was considered "feminizing," and was part of the reason for the (sexual) mentor relationship between younger and older samurai.
if you want camp, carrie's bald gay friend out of sex and the city is camp.
And I wouldn't say most homosexuals are camp either. To put that part of what I said another way incase anyone mis-inturrprets it:
All X are Y does not mean all Y are X.
Most X are Y does not mean that most Y are X.
All Americans are human. Not all humans are American.
Most humans are dicks. Not all humans are dicks.
So with camp it's more I'm asking, if a man is camp, does that make him likely to be homosexual?
As opposed to asking if a homosexual is likely to be camp.
Hmm... I guess I'd start to suspect he's gay, but not a for sure thing. On the other hand, every time I meet a guy with the "gay voice," I immediately assume he's gay. I'm sure there are some poor straight guys out there who can't get dates for this reason, hehe.
Here's my take on what you posted...
When I lived in Mass., the "queer" revolution-thing happened and gays embraced the word "queer" and, thus dis-empowered it. I'm not sure that straight guys aren't embracing the word "gay" among themselves to do the same thing. I suspect a motivation for that could be that they are getting the message that women like a sensitive man. They like a man to whom they can relate, and who can relate to them. Straight guys could very possibly be trying to dis-empower the word "gay" so that they don't have to feel that being a sensitive person, or a man that women find appealing because of his sensitivity "makes him gay" (whatever that means!).
As for the people who say "That is so gay." or things like it, you really have to consider the person who said it. If they are older than 15, there's reason for concern. The only reason 15 year old people say it is because that's what all the cool people say. Hopefully, when they grow up and develop minds of their own, they will see why it's not cool to do everything that the cool people do.
But back to what you asked in your post, do I find it offensive when people say "That's so gay", or I hear it (or things like it) said. No. I'm very comfortable with being gay.
I don't have a dog in the "politically correct" fight. I will be the first to agree that there are many injustices/imbalances. Misogyny being at the top of my list! I just choose to choose my battles and not waste my time or energy on things that may actually benefit me if their given enough time.
Scott
Anyway, the point of this long-winded ramble is that regardless of how you MEAN to use a word like gay, dumb, lame, etc, it will always have the same meaning on some level, and you'd be better off using a word like ridiculous to get your feelings across. Otherwise you run the risk of hurting people and reinforcing the idea that these words are not oppressive and are thus fine to use....
i agree. i do not define my sexuality as 'straight' either; very fluid; so more along the lines of bisexuality i guess, for the purposes of 'categorizing' merely for conversational purposes, but i do feel that i cannot talk openly and candidly about this, because it has become the mainstream to associate 'gay' with being negative.
the double standard is somewhat interesting, though; i am black, and i cannot hide my blackness. but when people use the 'n' word around me, i have become so desensitized to it, it does not bother me, quite frankly. i chose other words from my lexicon- arsenal instead of that word to get a meaning across, but i do not necessarily care one way or the other about people using that term.
the use of gay though.... when i hear it used in a negative connotation, for some reason, i cringe involuntarily inside. for me, it reaffirms that i cannot be open about myself and my feelings, because its still very prominent, despite gay rights activism, for heterosexuality and homophobia to be normative.
VBR - exactly. And as much progress as we've made, racism, transphobia, ableism and sizism are also still rampant. I mean, how many ads do we see daily on vegweb for weight loss scams? How often do we see non-white people in positions of authority on TV or in movies, and how often do we see just one token individual who belongs to a visible minority? How hard is it to find an accessible bathroom (one that is REALLY accessible) in a public place or a school, and how hard to find a non-gendered single-stall locking bathroom? All of these issues still exist, and are normative in mainstream society. Taking back words and using them to empower yourself is one thing, (a great thing!), but the fact that all these types of discrimination are still large problems to many people needs to be acknowledged...part of that, I think, is realizing the impact words can have on reinforcing these lines of thinking.
I really like this discussion :)
to put this as simply as possible, i have really been trying to focus on doing what i can as an individual, to affect society and the level of peace and serenity in it thereof. my friends and some colleagues find me to be the type of person who is nurturing, can be confided in, and overall peaceful and of a serene disposition. at the same time, i have also always been known as a very direct person; blunt, straightforward, and my words carry heavy conviction, without having to resort to using phrases like 'that's so gay' or 'dude you're such a jew'...unnecessary disturbing little trifling phrases.
Yeah, there's definitely a different vibe down here. People are kinder, more polite than in California. Being gay was never really that big of an issue for me with friends, family or school. It certainly wasn't a walk in the park, but nowhere near what I'm sure others have to deal with.
It's not too bad in urban areas like Atlana, Raleigh, Tampa, Orlando and Miami to be out, loud and proud. I feel very comfortable and accepted here. It's probably like that in Nashville. But small Southern towns scare me, except for Asheville. I got lost in Redneck City, NC once and pulled into a gas station, that had tractors and pickup trucks in the parking lot.....they scared me so much I bought a candy bar and didn't open my mouth. LOL
So you are saying that if someone happens to be from a small southern town, or, they happen to drive a pickup or Tractor Trailer (many of which I'm sure have to do so as a means to provide for their families), They should be "assumed" to be "Rednecks".
Or, if it is by their choice, then they do not have a right to make that choice. And being a "Redneck" is a bad thing and they should be considered an inferior person due to someone else's beliefs? ;)b
YB
I can see what you're saying, but there's also where Tweety's coming from... I think it comes down to if you're part of a vulnerable group, it's hard to avoid stereotyping, simply because it's about your own safety. But I can see how one might take that too far...
So you are saying that if someone happens to be from a small southern town, or, they happen to drive a pickup or Tractor Trailer (many of which I'm sure have to do so as a means to provide for their families), They should be "assumed" to be "Rednecks".
Or, if it is by their choice, then they do not have a right to make that choice. And being a "Redneck" is a bad thing and they should be considered an inferior person due to someone else's beliefs? ;)b
YB
I appreciate being busted that my own fear-based prejucided against small town Southern people is a form of prejudice and I need to take a look at that. It certainly isn't fair too look and listen at a group of heterosexual men and pass judgement on them like I did.
Unfortnatley the reality is there are environements where I'm comfortable and welcomed and some that I need to just keep my trap shut and get the hell out of there.
So you are saying that if someone happens to be from a small southern town, or, they happen to drive a pickup or Tractor Trailer (many of which I'm sure have to do so as a means to provide for their families), They should be "assumed" to be "Rednecks".
Or, if it is by their choice, then they do not have a right to make that choice. And being a "Redneck" is a bad thing and they should be considered an inferior person due to someone else's beliefs? ;)b
YB
I appreciate being busted that my own fear-based prejucided against small town Southern people is a form of prejudice and I need to take a look at that. It certainly isn't fair too look and listen at a group of heterosexual men and pass judgement on them like I did.
Unfortnatley the reality is there are environements where I'm comfortable and welcomed and some that I need to just keep my trap shut and get the hell out of there.
Tweety: it's not just you! I'm a progressive freethinkin' liberal (gasp!), in AR... Also have a biracial child. Outside the metro areas, I *also* just try to keep my trap shut & get the hell out of there! I don't think that's prejudice... just prudence.
Of course not *everyone* is the same, in any setting, & I'm not judging anyone's personal worth based on where they're from... but experience has taught caution, to those of us paying attention-- the people who ARE bigoted & closed-minded & internally ugly (and there IS a segment of many rural populations for whom this description fits) can be dangerous to me... I'd be foolish to ignore that. If the stereotype stings, well, rise up, rural folks! & live in such a way as to make that stereotype obsolete. I'd be positively *thrilled* to let it go!
Tweety: it's not just you! I'm a progressive freethinkin' liberal (gasp!), in AR... Also have a biracial child. Outside the metro areas, I *also* just try to keep my trap shut & get the hell out of there! I don't think that's prejudice... just prudence.
Of course not *everyone* is the same, in any setting, & I'm not judging anyone's personal worth based on where they're from... but experience has taught caution, to those of us paying attention-- the people who ARE bigoted & closed-minded & internally ugly (and there IS a segment of many rural populations for whom this description fits) can be dangerous to me... I'd be foolish to ignore that. If the stereotype stings, well, rise up, rural folks! & live in such a way as to make that stereotype obsolete. I'd be positively *thrilled* to let it go!
I am rural from a town whose population when I was in HS was 35,000 give or take a few heads, and i don't hold the stereotype...
...then again i did move to a metropolitan area after college, so do i still count? Lol.
I am rural from a town whose population when I was in HS was 35,000 give or take a few heads, and i don't hold the stereotype...
...then again i did move to a metropolitan area after college, so do i still count? Lol.
There's always going to be people that break the stereotypical mode. It certainly is not fair by any stretch to stereotype rural America. However, I do appreciate the sentiment that in a town in the NC hills, in a population whose town is in the hundreds, it's best to high tail my queer ass out of there with as little drama as possible. But I shouldn't be ruled by my fears either. I could have asked for directions and probably not gotten ignored or beat up. LOL
And some of the most closed-minded, racist/whatever-ist people you wanna meet live in the world's largest cities. I've met some from NYC that would curl your hair, or straighten it till it stood up on your head without benefit of gel. And in London, and Barcelona, and Madrid, and Paris, and Rio, and all over this world. It's not the place, it's the person. You can be beaten to death for being who you are (whatever you are) in many capital cities of the world. Some people simply hate and fear what they don't understand. It's the herd instinct-- "If it's different, it's wrong."
another thing to consider as well is that i am not 'out' per se, about my views; and i fit the sterotype of a 'femme' in the traditional sense. so i might encounter a much different experience, if i were more androgynous.
And some of the most closed-minded, racist/whatever-ist people you wanna meet live in the world's largest cities. I've met some from NYC that would curl your hair, or straighten it till it stood up on your head without benefit of gel. And in London, and Barcelona, and Madrid, and Paris, and Rio, and all over this world. It's not the place, it's the person. You can be beaten to death for being who you are (whatever you are) in many capital cities of the world. Some people simply hate and fear what they don't understand. It's the herd instinct-- "If it's different, it's wrong."
True, true... I'm actually pretty suspicious of *most* human beings, regardless of setting; a whole lot of 'em are up to no good! (lol) Got no problems w/ snakes, spiders, coyotes, whatever... but those humans...!
And some of the most closed-minded, racist/whatever-ist people you wanna meet live in the world's largest cities. I've met some from NYC that would curl your hair, or straighten it till it stood up on your head without benefit of gel. And in London, and Barcelona, and Madrid, and Paris, and Rio, and all over this world. It's not the place, it's the person. You can be beaten to death for being who you are (whatever you are) in many capital cities of the world. Some people simply hate and fear what they don't understand. It's the herd instinct-- "If it's different, it's wrong."
You're going to find closed minded bigots wherever you go. I've found racism is so much worse here in Tampa bay than where I lived in North Carolina, but the homophobia isn't as bad. For every statement/stereotype/quality there are always going to be excpetions. This is why stereotyping and generalizing isn't a good idea.
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