not unless you're quitting sobriety to be a drunk/druggie/whatever else.

I know you're (somewhat) joking, but not everyone who enjoys the occasional beer/wine/mixed drink or joint is a "drunk" or "druggie." I don't know if it's because you and Jake are young and haven't seen the more responsible side of alcohol and drug use--like the "once a month, I'm smoking a joint and watching a movie" use or the "one beer with fajitas" drinking, but you guys seem a little naive about how people in the real world utilize these substances. I know in the movies it looks like everyone in college is shit-faced constantly, and yes, that is the case for some people, but there were plenty of times we sat around with a bottle of wine, talked until 3 AM, and had the time of our lives, not drunk, not hurting other people, and not being out of control. It's not an "either/or" situation once you are older and have things to do other than being drunk/high all the time. I respect your decision to abstain, I really do, because I didn't drink until I was 21, didn't smoke weed for the first time until I was 22, so I understand where you're coming from. Not everyone utilizes these things like the irresponsible high schoolers/college freshmen around you. I promise, it gets better!

i know there are people who can drink without getting out of control, but for me, i just don't see the point. if you're (and i mean the general you, not you specifically) not trying to get drunk, why not just drink some grape juice? and i know some people say they drink to feel relaxed to have a good time, but i can have a good time without it. and i most definitely don't need to smoke to be relaxed. i guess different life experiences make you view things like this differently, but from my experiences, abusing those substances is right around the corner. i don't believe anyone needs alcohol or drugs. and i don't see myself ever changing that.

Because I've never been to a grape juice tasting with 30 different juices, each with its own individual flavor and food pairing, as I have with wine (did this today!)! I've never had grape juice that the brewer took years to perfect the recipe and the same grape juice has been made for 200 years in a small Belgian town, as with beer. Because there are not Indian Pale Ale juices, porter juices, hefewisen juices, stout juices, merlot/syrah/pino grigio/zinfandel/port, etc juices. I respect the time and tradition associated with alcohol, and I feel that fermenting and brewing is truly an art, one which I choose to support.

I didn't smoke until I went to college full time, worked 30 hours a week, and maintained honor grades. I was so stressed and strung out I couldn't relax. I ran, I did yoga, I hiked, I tried meditation, I went to a therapist, and nothing worked. College kicked my ass, and relaxing once a month when I carved out some time was something I looked forward to and kept me going. "But you were dependent on drugs when you should have figured it out yourself" someone might say. Fuck yes, I agree with you, but in 3.5 years I didn't figure that out, but I figured out how to do it otherwise. Couldn't quit my job. Couldn't stop going to class. Couldn't let my grades drop. Works for me. 

narcissus- i never said any of those things make you weak. and "right" and "wrong" is different for everyone.

vr- as i said, i know there are people who can drink/smoke without getting out of control, but i will never agree with it and will never do it. i'm not labeling you as an alcoholic or a drug addict and i hope i didn't come off that way.

No, no, you didn't. You've been completely respectful in stating your views, as I hope I have. I just wanted to tell you that perhaps your views would change. I know we all think we have life figured out when we're a teenager or young adult (it's kind of in the handbook), but life isn't black and white and we change our minds as we grow. If we're not changing along with life, then we're static, stagnant, and resistant. Just keep an open mind. Some people are not so blessed as you, that you can deal with life and not get stressed to extreme points. Maybe college would have been much more enjoyable had I possessed your sanctity.

Just be careful with your use of "alcoholic" and "druggie." These words can be offensive, and they show a close-mindedness that you probably don't intend.

yes, you have been respectful and i haven't felt attacked like i have when i've had this conversation with other people. maybe my views will change, but i know for a fact that i will never drink or do drugs because (like ive mentioned before) addiction runs in my family and i will not put myself at risk of becoming addicted to alcohol and/or drugs.

I did not know about your family connection (I guess you've written this and I've missed it). I think that's totally different, and I respect you for making such responsible choices (as I did before I learned this). But like I've said, not everyone who partakes is an addict. I have no family history of addiction of any kind, so I didn't even think of this connection. I totally see what you're saying.

i used to want to try everything once, like you, but then i really opened my eyes and saw what has happened in my family and it scared me. i never ever want to end up like some of them did. so trying that was not as important as staying healthy.

I thought I would pipe up in this thread again with some interesting recent experiences of mine. I just got back from a trip to Amsterdam for the purpose of a great friend's bachelor party. We went because we're marijuana smokers and we wanted to combine some fun travel with an interesting smoking experience. Sure, while the weekend had the overtone of the "bachelor party" to it, it was still just 4 guys having a good time in a foreign city, nothing too extreme or out of control.

All of that said, having smoked in Canada for a little more than the last decade, and feeling that in general the attitude is fairly open towards it here, I have to say that being in an environment where it is fully legalized was astounding. Of course some of the arguments you hear regarding legalization are incredibly hyperbolic/doom and gloom/whatever, but even when you push those aside there is still concern as to how it will impact society. Well let me tell you, when you're sitting in a coffeeshop in Amsterdam at the end of the work day and a group of people stroll in wearing their work clothes for an after work smoke, you quickly gain some perspective. Instantly I saw legalized smoking in the exact same light as a group of work friends going out for a beer after work, or getting together for some other social activity where alcohol is enjoyed in reasonable quantities and sure, while the goal is intoxication, you're not going overboard.

From this perspective, I find it very difficult to understand why there is resistance to legalization when you have the benefits of:
- controlling and taxing distribution
- eliminating the criminal element
- ensuring a consistent potency / quality
- removing stigmas opening the door to further research and better understanding of the drug

Is burning something and inhaling the smoke bad for you? Of course, otherwise your natural reaction wouldn't be to cough. However, when you compare smoking one joint per day, which is already pretty moderate-high usage, to someone smoking half a pack of cigarettes a day, the amount of "bad stuff" going into the body looks to be lower in the former scenario.

I don't know, I just don't see the negatives outweighing the positives.

Longer_look:  Your comments strike me as being very rude and aggressive. Not nice.  Especially attacking one's personal life.

Oh, some of us do have joy in life, without any drugs at all.  It's true.

I know no one is perfect and people are hypocritical by nature, but dont fucking mock me for the life i live.

can i mock you for this life?
"Companion Animals:  I share a house with three cats named Munch, Merlin, and Momma.
College / University: I will be going to community college next year to save money"

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