making bread
Posted by hiimkelsi on Jan 20, 2008 · Member since Sep 2004 · 2297 posts
i just have a question about making bread. ive been making my own bread lately, and it is super duper yummy. the only problem that i have is that its super crumbly. i thought that maybe the crumbly thing had something to do with the amount of time it was given to rise. well, the first time i made it, i didnt let it rise that long, i did the shortest times, then the second time, i let it rise throughly. but both times its crumbly. is this something that just happens with homemade bread? is it something that i can fix?
Yeah, I have found that bread made with all whole wheat flour can sometimes be crumbly.
ah yes, i use all whole wheat flour. what other flours could i use that might be better? I'm going to whole foods on saturday and can pick anything up. I kneaded the bread for the maximum possible time. so that shouldnt be it. but i'll definitely add some vwg, we have lots of it around!
you can add some semolina to your flour, and the VWG may work too.
i think if you only use strictly ww flour, it tends to be a bit too dry. regular old AP white flour will work for some of the ww.
and yeah, you prob need to knead it more. or beat it with a stick. ;D
The first time I tried making bread by hand, I used a standard, double-risen white bread recipe from NZ's famous Edmonds cookbook. And it was kinda... meh. Not stretchy, not crusty, light and tasty enough, but not chewy-bubbly. I want to know how to make nice crusty sourdoughy European style breads.
I borrowed a bread book from the liberry, but since I seldom have time or energy or ingredients for making bread, I didn't get to test the information I read.
Nevertheless a few things stuck in my mind... (1) if you mist water onto the sides of the (properly pre-heated) oven when you're putting in your loaf, a crust will form better. (2) a bread stone/tile really helps texture; apparently it's a base-heating thing. (3) it's possible to make a different texture if you 'retard' the rising process by chilling it right down and taking the time to let it rise. (4) a sticky dough is difficult to handle, but with patience, it is better - too much flour can drastically affect bread quality/style.
*scratches head* I needs to BUY that book. ::)
I have a bread baking book from my mom. It also says that moisture while baking makes the crust crispier.
I think that letting dough rise slowly gives the yeast (or sourdough culture if you use that) more time to create pleasant tasting enzymes and other metabolism byproducts that make the final bread taste better.
When you go to Whole Foods, look for "Bread Flour."
I use Pieter Reinhard's "whole Grain Breads" also "The Bread Baker's Apprentice" I believe library has both books. Some say it is not for armatures but I feel as long as you have patient (some breads takes up to 3 days to make) and able to follow the instructions. I have been making awesome breads especially 100% whole grain (I still add some gluten flour too) artisan bread (rustic, and crispy crust) It is all in there and very tasty because of all the long fermentation process of the flour and grains. Please don't be intimidated because it feel like a text book, and he explained everything and basic to expert aspects of making bread. it is all there. I only spend a few minutes at times a day to make a great bread.
Baypuppy is right. Use bread flour because it is high gluten also you need to knead much longer to pass the windowpane test.
bread flour !! duh! that makes so much sense. haha. thanks for the suggestions, i think my next batch will be even beter. im looking forward to it. yummy.
the history of bread is a cool book too. really interesting...
db, or anyone else...for your "rustic" breads...how do you get a nice crust? we do the water spritzing, but no matter what, the crust still seems heavy to me.
i want the type that is on a french bread, like you can barely touch it before it falls all over you...sticks to your sweater, etc etc.
king arthur flour has some really cool flours and mixes too.
How to make French Bread thin crispy crust. At the beginning, I have to ask my husband's help because the oven temperature is very high, and I am afraid I will be burn. After a few try, it just get into a routine and I am not so afraid anymore, but still very careful. This is for free standing loaf.
(1) You can use a baking stone. preheated according to the instruction. However it is not necessary. You can use a baking sheet.
(2) On a very top shelf of your oven place a metal tray pan preheated in the oven with 500F.
(3) After your oven is preheated. Slide your bread onto the baking stone or just place your bread in the middle shelf.
(4) pull out the top shelf with the metal pan. Pour 1 cup of hot water into the pan to create steam. Immediately close the oven door. (beware of the steam burn, careful)
(5) After 30 seconds, open the oven door. use a high pressure spray. spray water on the oven wall, I just quickly count 10 times and close the door immediately. (avoid the water spray to the light bulb or the oven door, it may crack)
(6) repeated twice more.
(7) After the last spray, lower the oven temperature to 450F and bake for 10 minutes and if needed, rotate the bread for 180 degree and bake for another 10 to 20 minutes until it is rich golden brown (depends on your oven) The internal temperature should be about 205F when it is done.
(8) after remove from the oven, let it cool for about 40 minutes before you slice it. It will be very thin crispy crust. Your oven temperature is very important. If it is too high, the crust will be think and dark brown.
oh geez doughbunny! thats alot of work, but thanks!!! :-* i will definately try this, wish me no burns!!! :-\
or i may just give up and buy that baguette from the store... heh heh
There's a definite difference in Europe between "strong flour" and regular old white flour like you use to coat fryables etc. Strong flour is for making bread only. I don't know what the US term would be, probably that "bread flour" DB mentioned. If you can find "red wheat" or triticale flour, it makes good bread.
When I was making bread for which I got blue ribbons at the County Fair, I learned to use one third white flour to 2 thirds wheat, or 1 third fine cornmeal to 2 thirds rye (Almanzo Wilder's "rye and injun" bread--"injun" being the cornmeal. Use the finest you can get).
Make sure your kneading space isn't too awful warm or the yeast will "prove out" too quickly and it might go flat, giving you dense, heavy bread in the 2nd rising. And yes, knead it until you sweat copiously! It's good exercise and if you imagine the person who gives you the most grief under your hands, it's good therapy too! :P I used to sing endless Appalachian folksongs and Elizabethan English ones while I kneaded--"Mary Hamilton" has just the right rhythm and swing, and one sing-thru of the 12 verses plus refrains was usually about long enough.
Let it rise in a warm place, covered with a damp cloth. AND DON'T TOUCH IT while it rises! Best if you can buy a piece of muslin and leave it only for bread making. I always oiled the bowl--easier to deal with the second kneading.
Bread machines may be quicker and easier but there's nothing so satisfying as getting the "hang" of home made bread and turning out your own loaves. I made 6 pounds of bread every week for years, no leftovers.
There's a definite difference in Europe between "strong flour" and regular old white flour like you use to coat fryables etc. Strong flour is for making bread only. I don't know what the US term would be, probably that "bread flour" DB mentioned. If you can find "red wheat" or triticale flour, it makes good bread.
Down here in the antipodes, bread flour is generally called high grade, while baking flour is standard grade. Wonder if that helps anyone.
What a fun idea, yabbit! Not that I can sing to save my life, but mebbe I could put on a song to time my kneading, and hum along... 'cause otherwise I probably cut the process short, thinking "it MUST have been ten minutes by NOW, *sigh*..." not a productive attitude. ::)
king arthur has a "european artisan flour"...apparently it makes wonderful euro-type breads. a woman from across the pond was telling my mother (the mistress of bread) about it, so we picked it up and played w/ it a bit....
its fun to combine all the diff types and see what the heck comes out!
anyone use semolona? thats always a good one to add a bit to a ww recipe, like waffles...it lightens it up a bit.
and i likie buckwheat (light if you can find it) in pancakes too! :P