How many have transitioned all the way? Share your story!
I would say that my family is basically 'dietary vegan' but not 'full vegan' because of belongings such as some clothing (some sweaters, shoes, bags, belts, etc), seats in car, leather furniture, etc.... A while back, when I first transitioned from veg to vegan I sold a couple leather/suede jackets that I had owned prior to veg*n because there was no way I would feel ok wearing them and I just didn't want to own them anymore... Ideally I would like to be full vegan, but it would mean overhauling a lot of things (changing cars, replacing clothes, etc) and that would be difficult and costly and I guess that's not realistic for my family right now. I'm wondering how easy or fast it was to transition all the way; the journey to full veganism. Am I just thinking it's this 'big thing' when it's not? There are certain things that I think would be tough (replacing dh's belts, shoes, etc..... I don't think he would be cool with that). I think I just need to find peace (instead of guilt) with being dietary vegan.... Does anyone else struggle with this issue? I would love to one day be completely vegan and have the peace of mind of knowing that I live a completely cruelty-free lifestyle.... :) Please share your story/journey because this is always on my mind, and I am so inspired to break free of these belongings and to be able to call myself 'vegan' for real!
I think that you shouldn't get too caught up with the whole 'going vegan all the way' thing. As many have noted on this site, there is no 'vegan police' (although some snobby vegans would like to sign up for this position). I think that every person has their own reasons for being vegan, and as long as you feel comfortable, that's what matters. You could drive yourself crazy trying to eliminate every single thing that had any drop of animal-related product in it (i.e. tires, film, etc.). For me, personally, I try to purchase completely animal-free products for my food and home. If there is a non-animal alternative, I will purchase it. I'm a label reader and am very careful about what I eat. I don't wear leather and am slowly weeding out other animal-derived clothing (namely wool and silk). I feel that I am doing a good thing with what I've done so far and I'm not going to get caught up in the little things and feel guilty for eating a packaged food that contained refined sugar or the wrong kind of Vitamin D (although I will try to avoid these foods in the future).
I think finding the peace you talk about is key. No one is checking up on your vegan purity (or no one should be, anyway), so do what you feel is appropriate and be OK with that. That's all you can do. Although not everyone sees it the same way, there are comparisons between religion and veganism--with religion, people will practice what they feel is appropriate for them to maintain their faith. I think a similar scenario can be applied to veganism. Thoughts?
It all depends on what your definition of "all the way" is, and that really does seem to be different for everyone. What is "all the way" to one person may be not enough for another, and yet too much for someone else. (If that makes sense?! I'm tired; I gotta go to sleep!)
I'm not sure if you've read this before, but the thread in the following link is from a couple of months ago. By reading it, you'll find that everyone is pretty much on their own path and at different stages (one not necessarily better than the other) of veganism. I think the overall sentiment/agreement in the thread is that everyone has to go at their own pace. Take it one step at a time, and don't assume you can do it all at once. Nor should you worry about being perfect. It's quite a nice thread really, and goes to show you how great people are here at vegweb!
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=15703.0
Kbuettne: My sentiments exactly. To add a bit on, if there are things in your household from pre-veg days that you can't afford to replace or just don't want to let go of, keep them! Use/wear them till they are done and when the time comes, buy vegan alternatives. Every small bit makes a difference, do what feels comfortable for you.
I'm slightly offended...
My family and I are dietary vegans (we choose organic and animal free bath and personal products, as well) and we consider ourselves "vegan for real" with a lot of thanks to this site.
I will say here what I've said a thousand times, I am not vegan for animal cruelty reasons (nor are many other son this site!) YET, I still save 90-100 animals a year by not eating them. So bring on a "real vegan" who is not happy with that and I'll have to set them straight. When we teach our son (currently 2.5yrs) about why we are vegan we will tell him about the horrible slaughterhouse practices etc. but that's not "why" we don't eat animal products.
I have leather furniture and leather seats in the car. I do not feel guilty about this. We have a vegan babysitter who is just like us (at first we were worried she'd be offended by the furniture)
I understand your desire to be the best veg*n you can be (and the fact that you didn't mean to offend in your post) and if you feel guilty then maybe a next step is what you need. Yet, remember that YOU define your veg*nism. I used to believe there was a dictionary definition of vegans but in the real world I see we are all different... as we should be!!
Read the linked topic that shaolinbunny posted. It's a good taste of our diverse veg*n community. :)
And good luck finding your peace.
Well Two years ago I was at a camp and a girl mentioned that for a whiel she didn't eat red meat. I was sorta surprised and asked her about it and thankfully she gave me an honest answer about animal cruelty and stuff.
When I got back from camp I researched vegetarians and later decided to become one. At first I only excluded red meat... and then later chicken.. much later eggs...quickly followed by milk.. and so it goes.
At first my parents weren't too excited about it, but after they looked it up on the internet and made me promise to get enough protein(typical) they were ok with it. I love my family for not giving me any complicatiions with it- they are the best!!!
The thread that Shaolinbunny posted pretty much sums up most of us here. Like Jennifer said, we are ALL very different. And we are vegans for different reasons.
As far as going "all the way," I'm NOT strict vegan. Food-wise, and clothing, yes I am, for most items now-a-days (except my kashi bars ;) ). But not with household items.
To me, "going all the way" is eating a strict vegan diet. I'm not there yet, eventhough I eat %100 vegan at home or at my vegan best friend's house. But it is my goal.
i thought the definitions we were using, for the most part, where vegan (don't eat animal stuff) and angry vegan (vegan who doesn't use any animal stuff). okay, that is a bit smart@$$, because it isn't. i do think the angry vegan definitions that dave and AK bring up time to time are a bit cute though. :D i gues this can bring in the trouble to starting some sort of vegan continuum. i'm not trying to go there. it is, however, interesting to see how this friendly board has managed to discuss diversity in veganism without finger poking.
i personally think everyone on here is awesome for doing what they can do. the more the better, but hey, as JH notes, just eating veg*n saves a whole lot of lives each year. it is what i do! i have some nonvegan clothes (well, like 3 things at this point) from my preveggie days that i wear and will replace with vegan style stuff when the time comes.
lol this cracks me up!
I became a vegan (dietary only) because of health reasons. I was told 4 years ago this month that I had 2 months to live. I had been diagnosed with stage 4 colo-rectal cancer. It had killed my dad at the age of 39, and 7 of his 12 siblings have had it, then me. I decided while fighting for my life to search out a way to save myself and found that a vegan diet plan was right for me. I feel great, and am cancer free. I believe with all of my heart that the vegan diet played a large part in my journey back to the life of the living. In that sense, I guess Cancer saved my life cause I learned how I was suppose to eat. After knocking on Heavens door, i now look and feel better than I have ever looked or felt. For a 42 year old woman who almost bit the dust, I must say, I am happy, so happy to be a vegan.
I am still new at it, I even tried to be raw vegan for a short time (that didn't work for me). I was so excited to find this website last week. Its the first one I found that is interesting to me. So thanks yall.
First off I just wanted to say that I myself am slightly offended by dietary vegans. I think they are "strict vegetarians" (yes, I'm going to jump into the label snake-pit) and not vegans, because vegans abstain from all animal products, or actively TRY to. A vegan may have a hard time affording a new couch to replace the leather one, but they arent going to be 100% okay sitting on it all the time. In my opinion vegans are always actively striving to cut animal products out of their lives when possible and not settling for diet alone. It starts with changing your diet but veganism is not a diet, it is a lifestyle, a perspective on life if you will. I dont think I only speak for myself when I say becoming vegan really changes the way you think about things.
I've been vegan for little over a year. I went "cold turkey", straight home after a discussion in my world religions class (Gary Yourofsky = <3 to me forever for opening my eyes. Dave, I think you would like his way of speaking to students. His website is adaptt.org - Animals Deserve Absolute Protection Today & Tomorrow) and made a phone call to my BF asking him if he'd support my decision. He said yes, and I went upstairs and threw out like 3 packages of mozzerella cheese right into the trash. ::) A bit wasteful but I was sure worked up over what Gary had shown and told us in class that day. Out of a class of 60 only 4 of us went vegan on the spot, but I'm not sure how many have followed through.
Anyway, it started with food (and let me tell you my culinary skills have grown exponentially, just ask my BF ::)) and gradually as I ran out of household cleaners/skincare products I would replace them with natural, vegan alternatives. I made myself acquainted with the local health food stores, learned to check labels on clothes and shoes (several times having to return wool sweaters or leather shoes when I didnt remember to check), and learned how to turn down non-vegan food at my family's house in 7 different languages. No, not really, but sometimes you think thats what it'll take ::)
Recently I've started looking up easy "green" tips to make my apartment more earth-friendly.. I think its the next step after becoming vegan, most of us start being more aware of our impact on the earth as well as its inhabitants..
I am with Janeyboo here. I know and am grateful for every step towards an animal-free lifestyle, and when my mom tells me that she eats less meat, I am happy just as much as I would be if a friend told me they decided not to buy a leather jacket... I do however believe that vegan really does mean animal-free on all levels, not just dietary. It's not anything I would really fight over, it's not worth it, because in the end, we're all doing what we can. But like I said, the term "vegan" to me means more than "strict vegetarian and optional animal-free non-food items".
That said, I still own a pair of leather shoes, floss with beeswax on it, and a wool jacket, and I'm not planning on getting rid of them. These stem from my pre-vegan days and I have no trouble using them until they fall apart.
I hope VegWeb stays this open to all stages of being veggie because that's what I love about this place. No vegan police, no fighting, no personal attacks, guilt tripping, or exclusion.
Does anyone have any statistics on how many vegans/vegetarians there are on this planet? And how many omnivores there are?
Geez, I just have a sneaking suspicion that our (veg*ns) numbers are scarce compared to the herds of omnivores. (It's just a hunch. ;D) (If you give me statistics that proved otherwise, though, I'd be quite happy!)
As far as I can tell, everyone here is on a path going FORWARD and in the right direction. Compared to the rest of the world, that's saying something. It would be a shame if we became too fractured over our differences (particularly due to labels). Because in the big scheme of things, the differences are very small...if you compare veg*ns differences to the way most people normally eat and conduct their lives. That's just how I see it. I'm sure there are others who would disagree, though. I, personally, would love to see us all *perfectly* vegan (including me), but that sort of idealism is exactly that...idealism (currently, anyway).
The point is to keep moving forward, keep trying. Each day, week, month, practice a new thing that helps the planet. Keep learning. At what pace that is, that's up to you. I consider myself a vegan. But I can tell you, I've learned some really great things on this site from the vegetarians, "dietary vegans," and the "strict so-called angry vegans" alike. Some of you might place vegans and vegetarians (or "dietary vegans") on the opposite sides of the bench. But at least we're on the same bench. The omnivores are seated at a bench on the other side of the park. Eating their ball park franks. Ugh.
BTW, veg*ns = all vegetarians and vegans. (It took me a while to figure out what that meant--just thought I'd mention it for those who don't know.)
I'm full out an angry vegan. lol, sometimes it can be very inconveinent...but w/e. I don't even sit on leather. (one time I went to a movie theather with only leather seating, so I left.) But as hard as I try, I know there's probably a million things I do everyday that indirectly support the exploitation of animals. Like driving a car. How many bugs do i run over?! And my house has windows in it (some types of glass use animal products in their manufacturing process), and when my house was being built, how many worms were cut in half from the bulldozer? And when I eat grain, were bugs killed during harvesting? Am I eating their residue?! :-\ It's so messed up how most aspects of life involve animal abuse like that.
And don't even get me started on plant abuse! Sometimes I have nightmares about eating plants. Afterall--they had to die so I could eat them...And cotton! It had to die so I could wear it...Or what about eating seeds? They never even GOT to live... (this sort of thinking is EXACTLY how my eating disorder started.)
Shaolinbunny, good post. I totally agree with you. No offense to our lovely angry vegans (I love ya, too, guys/gals). But you did make a valid point. Not everyone becomes "strict vegan" over night. My best friend is strict vegan, but she doesn't think no less of me, because I'm not. The same goes for Vegweb. That's why I love this place.
Some of you might place vegans and vegetarians (or "dietary vegans") on the opposite sides of the bench. But at least we're on the same bench.
I really liked how you phrased that. Very quotable :)
Some of you might place vegans and vegetarians (or "dietary vegans") on the opposite sides of the bench. But at least we're on the same bench.
I really liked how you phrased that. Very quotable :)
YES! I totally agree.
Janeyboo,
Other than the leather furniture (not clothes actually, I don't have any animal product clothing and won't, DH has leather boots for work) I don't see how I am that different from you.
Honestly, I wonder if you are saying "being vegan = feeling guilty if you DO use those products/items" not just, "IF you USE them or not"
does that makes sense? I do strive to not use animal products in virutally all other areas, maybe one day I'll replace my couch (which was purchased long before veg days)... but no, right now I don't feel guilty about it. When I first came to vegweb I didn't consider myself vegan, yet i found myself on the vegan side of the bench more than 95% of the time. In the end I found it was easier to refer to myself as vegan (both here and to omnis IRL) even when DH ate cheese every few months! Which BTW he doesn't do now... so are we allowed in the vegan club yet? What if I DID get rid of my furniture? Would be be allowed in the vegan club then? But I still wouldn't have the guilt factor... and if I was at a friend's house and had to sit down I would... *sigh* maybe I'm not vegan then... the really bad thing is that if i was in an airplane accident (think... Alive) and had to eat human meat to stay alive... I would. I know, I'm crazy.
I don't have pets, and still tend not to read posts here about pets and pet food. I don't want pets. Does that make me less vegan? Does not rescuing animals make YOU less vegan? (Maybe you do, I don't know.)
Maybe strict vegetarians won't want me in their group becuz I only use animal-free natural products and cleaners?
Sorry, I don't mean this in a bitchy tone, more joking really becuz I'm really not mad, I'm just being insanely ridiculous. :D The whole thing seems so trivial to me when we ARE all on the same bench. And that's what we "dietary vegans" just want to remind those who strive to be "real vegans" ... You know, "Hi... hey... hello, over here we're right next to you and not that different from you... we're not substandard."
You're right though and if you want to define veganism strictly then I do understand, but I'm gonna keep referring to myself as vegan (becuz I feel that label is much closer to where I truly fall in the continuum) and explain the details as needed.
BTW, I think your awesome for going green we're doing the same thing, I do feel like it's the next step (or maybe a responsible co-action)
On a random note: Once I told a group of gung-ho breastfeeding moms that for our family, going vegan was the next step after breastfeeding and they looked at me like I was mentally ill. :) But if I had said something about cloth diapering they would have all nodded in agreement. Weird... I guess they went (sort of) green first and missed the whole veg*n thing. ;D
I became a vegetarian at first due to my becoming aware of factory farms. I was also researching my pet's diets and wanted a better diet then comercial dog food for them and had just read the book "The Nature of Animal Healing" along with lots of PETA materials. All of that information combined in my little pea sized brain, made me start to eliminate certain "rotting flesh" from my diet one food source at a time. Over a period of five years, I finally was consuming no animal products at all (my one time addiction to cheese was my last hold out....though funny I never liked milk...only cheese). I guess I just "crossed a line" at some point and the thought of putting anything that was once living (excluding plants) past my lips just disgusted me. I call it the "yuk" factor.
I still have some leather couches and some other items related to my pre-vegan days. I'll donate them when I move. I just don't purchase any non-vegan items any longer. At least those that I know are non vegan. It is impossible to be a 100% "pure" vegan if you want to define it as zero tolerance for animal products. I would have to live naked, in a hut out in the woods, with no electricity, no pets, nothing that would even harm an insect. That is a line I'm not crossing. As it has been stated here before, we all do what we believe is right for us personally. Some of us will move further down a non-animal existence, and some will be happy to spend their lives where they are right now. Others here may go back to consuming and using animal products. At the end of the day, all of us combined, being either vegan, or a veggie, or whatever you are comfortable calling yourself, will save thousands and thousands of lives each and every year by the personal choice we have made for ourselves. That I can live with.
-dave
ps: Thanks for the post Janeyboo....Ashley....I can understand the nightmare about plants too...
To me, it is much more "vegan" to continue to use any animal products that you have than to throw them out all at once and go buy all vegan products.
I so agree with that tofuttibreak.... Well said!
That is why I will donate my leather sofas and chairs when I move. There is nothing wrong with them. The cow is already dead and paid with his or her life to have them made. :'( I feel it's better for the next person who gets them to enjoy them, and use them. Maybe they can't afford to buy a few sofas. Maybe they will be someone that needed to leave an abusive spouse and start over....or just got out of prison and is ready to start a new life....who knows who will be the next person to use them, or where they came from, or what their needs are? I do know that somebody out there has a "need" for them. That is so much better then them just ending up in a landfill somewhere......
I am definitely dietarily vegan. I don't have control over what my kids do when they outside of this house, but I have tried to instill my way of thinking. I just can't promise that they follow it.
We are still transitioning in other ways. I am allergic to something they use to "process" leather so we never have had this in the house. I have had wool items, but I don't at this point. I have had silk items, but don't at this time. I won't be buying any more silk or wool fabric in the future. I still have some from before I understood about all of these things. I could throw out what amounts to a couple of thousand dollars in fabric, but that would not serve a purpose. The animal suffering I helped to cause is over and putting these things into the landfill...well in my book 2 wrongs don't make right. I may choose not to wear it, but I do a lot of sewing for others who don't share our beliefs and having THEM wear it and that is THEIR choice is a little different than filling the trash barrel.
I have a number of creams and makeup things that I know must contain animal products. I could throw them out, but what is done is done now. I will make different choices for the future and things I have bought recently are vegan.
I guess the long and short of this is that wasting things is not a very vegan friendly thing to do, not as far as I am concerned. I think we have all done "damage" if you will, in the past and I think it is more important that now we are informed and now we will seek to do better in the future.
I just want to put out there that in no way did I intend to offend or ruffle feathers with this post....I just have as an eventual goal for myself to 'faze' out the un-vegan items in my life when they expire and go on, as many said, buying vegan equivalents. I appreciate all the comments generated because that's how we all learn- from each other! Thanks :)
And don't even get me started on plant abuse! Sometimes I have nightmares about eating plants. Afterall--they had to die so I could eat them...And cotton! It had to die so I could wear it...Or what about eating seeds? They never even GOT to live... (this sort of thinking is EXACTLY how my eating disorder started.)
;D That made me laugh. I've had the same thoughts and feel especially sorry for root vegetables.
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