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Evolution away from a meat-based diet

So I was reading the main board and reflecting a lot.  There have been many claims supported by expert testimony that carnivorous animals need meat.  I was just thinking about the panda--which appears to be a once carnivorous animal--who now eats plants.  Same goes for the "honey badger" and other animals.  For instance, the "raccoon dog" now eats an omnivorous diet--and it's a canine.  Would it eventually turn in to an animal that only ate plants?  Did it come from an animal that only ate meat?

I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks about these things/reads about them.  Or knows anything about the aforementioned animals.  Everything I've read doesnt discuss their species origin :(. 

I don't know about the raccoon dog, but I think dogs in general are considered omnivores. 

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Found this.  It's not so much about evolution, but it's interesting.
http://www.vegsource.com/veg_faq/comparative.htm

As far as evolution is concerned, I've always heard that the human appendix is a vestigial dietary organ.  This is from wiki:

Quote:
The appendix is thought to have descended from an organ in our distant herbivorous ancestors called the cecum (or caecum). The cecum is maintained in modern herbivores, where it houses the bacteria that digest cellulose, a chemically tough carbohydrate that these animals could not otherwise utilize. The human appendix contains no significant number of these bacteria, and cellulose is indigestible to humans. It seems likely that the appendix lost this function before human ancestors became recognizably human.
Medical literature instead shows that the appendix is not generally credited with significant function; however, current evidence tends to involve it in the immunologic mechanism.[

It appears that whether or not modern humans are true herbavores, at one point we definitely were.  I think we are herbavores, but lost the ability to digest cellulose as our diet expanded to include animal flesh and other unnatural food.

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hahahahaha, speaking of evolving.....
it is a running joke with my co-workers that my great-great-great-great-great grandkids will have only molars, no need for incisors   
;D

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Operachic, that link was pretty cool! 8)  Too bad it didnt have any obvious sources........

And as far as evolution goes.....nothing can contrl how it evolves....a human can't just be like: i need a longer neck  to eat off trees, so I shall grow one.  And my kids will have even longer ones.  It doesn't work like that.  common misconception.

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Evolution away from a meat-based diet would likely only occur very gradually, where meat sources are sparse and when dealing with an already (partially) omnivorous animal. The transition from carnivore could potentially be made, of course, but it would take quite some time and I imagine the chances of extinction would be higher. The Panda has had some trouble with this adaptation...

The following is from wikipedia, not always reliable but rarely flat-out wrong:

Despite its taxonomic classification as a carnivore, the panda has a diet that is primarily herbivorous, which consists almost exclusively of bamboo. This is an evolutionarily recent adaptation. Pandas lack the proper enzymes to digest bamboo efficiently, and thus derive little energy and little protein from it.

I would venture that that, along with the huge human component (deforestation ETC.), may have something to do with the species' current difficulty. The panda essentially carved out a niche for itself by specialising in a rarely eaten but rather abundant food source. More here from another site...

So while bamboo stalks and roots make up about 95% of its diet, the giant panda also feeds on gentians, irises, crocuses, fish, pikas, vines, mushrooms, rice grass and occasionally small rodents.

This goes to show that animals will essentially eat what they can get, but most are prevented from doing so because of specialized dietary requirements and the restrictions of their habitat.

Another misconception about evolution is that what an animal IS eating is what it SHOULD be eating (or rather, what it would most benefit from). Nature is highly competitive, and animals carve niches wherever they can. Watch any documentary on rain forests to witness the WILD level of specialization most living things have.

Just a note that ecosystems generally require predation of some sort, whether we are talkign about animal predators, bacteria, fungus (there's one that infects ants and uses their nutrients to grow), or even plants (Venus Flytraps, for ex.). Life thrives on consuming life, and without predation there would be problems with herbivore numbers (until they devour their food source). And of course, herbivores have their own prey (though far less mobile).

Now as humans, we are lucky, because we have pretty adaptive dietary requirements and the choice to eat in many different ways. Though sometimes I do wish we just couldn't digest animal products (though if that were the case, our prehistoric brains may not have developped). It would make the argument for veganism so much easier! Not that meat is "good" for people... but we sure can cram it down.

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Another misconception about evolution is that what an animal IS eating is what it SHOULD be eating (or rather, what it would most benefit from).

So, VegDave, you're saying that I'm not going to die because I don't eat McDonald's alledged food like the other humans do?

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That is a distinct probability.

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Another misconception about evolution is that what an animal IS eating is what it SHOULD be eating (or rather, what it would most benefit from).

So, VegDave, you're saying that I'm not going to die because I don't eat McDonald's alledged food like the other humans do?

That is a distinct probability.

yeah, ole ronald ain't looking too healthy these days...
that pasty white skin, redish eyes, swollen feet (apendages),  those can't be healthy traits.....

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So I was reading the main board and reflecting a lot.  There have been many claims supported by expert testimony that carnivorous animals need meat.  I was just thinking about the panda--which appears to be a once carnivorous animal--who now eats plants.  Same goes for the "honey badger" and other animals.  For instance, the "raccoon dog" now eats an omnivorous diet--and it's a canine.  Would it eventually turn in to an animal that only ate plants?  Did it come from an animal that only ate meat?
I'm just wondering if anyone else thinks about these things/reads about them.  Or knows anything about the aforementioned animals.  Everything I've read doesnt discuss their species origin :(. 

It's not that these animals have evolved AWAY from meat eating, it is just that the scientific classification - Carnivora - includes animals that are omnivorous.

Here's my infamous list again....  ;)

If you are looking for legitimate, non-biased studies, there are numerous sites:
http://www.avma.org/
http://www.plos.org/index.php
http://www.plosone.org/home.action
http://www.pnas.org/
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/

And possibly some things here:
http://www.eurekalert.org/
http://www.sciencedirect.com/

The first set is your best resource as it contains the actual scientific research, not just the summaries. 
And you are always better off avoiding wikipedia.  It works well as a guidebook, not as a source of reliable information.
(Unfortunately)

cheers!
MD

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Ferret Research:  http://ferretknots.blogspot.com/
Ferret Resources:  http://nippynihon.blogspot.com/
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Mahatma Gandhi:
"The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." 

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