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A Vegan No More

                                                      http://voraciouseats.com/2010/11/19/a-vegan-no-more/

What does everyone make of this? She appears to have come under alot of fire, although so many comments are supportive. I don't really want to get into her personal choices and whether or not they were right or wrong but this struck a bit of fear in me.  I hope I never have problems with my health and need to return to an omni diet. I'm still not really sure why it was animal product that restored her health and would be interested in the science behind that. At the very least I suppose it shows how vegan or omni there's alot of information out there that can support whatever "side" you're on so maybe it just depends on what you want to read.

When I read this, I had a lot of the same questions..and confusion rolling around in  my head, but then I think of all the superbly healthy vegans out there and how good I feel when I'm following a healthy vegan diet.  Since being a vegan I notice that if I indulge my sweet tooth a little too much or get into a junk food kick it is easier to feel off balance and ill a lot easier. I find I need to be more diligent and make sure I eat healthy, and supplement with power foods like spirulina and such.  I have to say that it would break my heart if I was told I had to eat meat or be sick!

I originally saw this article on the Vegan Lunch Box blog.  She has also declared that she now makes food choices according to nutritional value to her as opposed to wether or not it contains an animal product.  She says that she's now a nutritarian.

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Put me down for a :rolling eyes: vegan.  

She can eat whatever she wants, I don't care about that part, but her story kept changing - first she had a balanced whole-foods diet, then she ate veggie burgers.  If the issue is that people need animal nutrients, she could have stopped at eggs, but she eats meat, which blows her blaming it on veganism.  She comes across as being uninformed and lazy about her diet more than anything else - she's not the first and won't be the last.

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My eyes rolled some too as she kept justifying.  How are we supposed to interpret that?  Is that supposed to mean that John Robbins, Howard Lyman..even Albert Einstein are just over reacting??

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I read this too and my take on this....and I am only taking a stab at this, is that the type of vegan diet may have caused issues.

I know this because as someone who has been veg since the age of 18 and was a bad veg for many years (but never ever gave it up), I understand the problems one can cause with one's health.

In my case when I wasn't a healthy vegan I ate too many sweets, breads, not enough cooked hearty foods, not enough "warming" foods.  I also did not eat enough hot foods in the winter which made me cold, pale and nutrient dificient.

I, too, became "sick" (weak, pale, cold, susceptible to infections) and then I realized the error of my ways after reading books on Chinese medicine and Ayurveda.  When I did I stopped eating sugar, cut down on "sweet" foods, ate more warming, cooked foods and I started getting better immediately.

You can develop deficiencies on a vegan diet...I know I did but you can mitigate them by eating foods that are nutrient dense and cooked and warming (cooked and warming foods increase nutrient absorption and digestion).

Oh, eating with the seasons makes a huge difference in health (more cooling foods in the summer heat and more warming in the winter).  If you eat cooling foods (raw, cool in nature) in the winter you are really putting your health at risk.

I think these principals are what is missing in the discussion about vegan diets. It's not all about nutrient counting...it's about other aspects of food...how well it's digested, the warming and cooling aspects, seasonal changes, etc.

I am thinking this is what happened to this woman. She started getting imbalanced for whatever reason.  Meat is very very attractive to a person who has become deficient because of it's nature. It does make you feel better but it's not the only way to feel better.

I am happy to say that I am a balanced vegan and eat very well and have maintained my health.

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I went to post my comment, but got that notice that another poster had already posted.  After reading your comment, Soliel, I canceled mine due to what pretty much would have amounted to redundancy.

I am an 80%+ raw foodist and in September my doctor ran a full blood panel on me specifically because of my diet and it came back flawless.  You can do it right!  I have to assume she just didn't.

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The only thing this article managed to do for me is to freak me out about my health, in the long run.
But then again, I feel 100% better than when I was an omni.
I wonder how many people have 'had' to go back to being omni after being vegan?

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I feel like some of that was her trying to convince herself. Her post was just as unsupported as she says arguments FOR veganism are. And I think she removed some of the comments, because they are almost 100% "good for  you, don't let others get you down, do what's good for you!" and some of the commenters are talking about mean and hateful responses in the comment section...?

I was slightly shocked that all these vegan authors sneak animal bits.

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Add me to the list of rolling eyes vegan. Like others have already said, I really don't care what she eats but it seems like she's trying to convince herself this is a good thing. I don't really have anything new to say because I think everyone hit the nail on the head with this one. You can be vegan and be healthy and you can also be vegan and be unhealthy and it sounds like she was very unhealthy. I don't know what in animal products would magically make her all better considering you can get everything you need from a healthy vegan diet.

Actually, I do want to add this:

Quote:
..my depression. This awful, lifelong foe I’ve been battling on and off was sneaking back into my life, painting the edges of my world a sickening black and stealing the joy that I had fought so desperately to regain.

It seems odd that all of a sudden in the last 6 months her vegan diet would be making her sick whereas her lifelong battle of depression would make more sense. I don't know how bad her depression is but many times depression will cause someone to stop eating, eat lazily or overall not pay much attention to what they're eating and this could be where deficiencies came from which in turn would create a cycle of feeling like crap all of the time. She also said she had stopped exercising and exercising helps to fight depression so if she stopped that may have affected her. The point where she goes to the doctors and then decides to eat meat again was a wakeup call to her, in her eyes it was to eat meat but really (and this is just my opinion) it should have woken her up to the fact that she needs to be taking care of herself. The fact that she ate meat again and was magically feeling better was probably that she started getting nutrients that she was missing when she wasn't paying attention to her eating.

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The only thing I ever get out of these is paranoia. I pretty well know the root cause of any health problems I may have - and it's not veganism - but because I'm a wishy-washy sucker, I always think 'Oh no! I don't know if I'm healthy or not, since I've been a vegan from too young an age to have a good point of reference!'

And then I realise I'm being an idiot. *shrug*

Why do these people always go on about living in places unsuited to growing grain crops? Fine, rural Saudi Arabia isn't a great place for mangoes and corn. So how is it a great place for humans, exactly? If the kinds of plants suited to the climate aren't suited to human consumption, shouldn't that tell you something?

I saw a recommendation for Lierre Kieth in the comments and just roooooolled my eyes.

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I was slightly shocked that all these vegan authors sneak animal bits.

Yeah, really now? What?

This blog post actually made the nagging worries in the back of my mind reappear because I did start getting depressed when I first went vegan and I do have low energy. But I could never eat animal products again. I know that I could eat healthier but animal products are out of the question. I know she is worried about her health, but this lady makes some ridiculous excuses.

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Read this:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/11/do-ex-vegans%E2%80%99-stories-make-the-case-against-vegan-diets.html

(thanks vegan.com, for the link!)

Messina also has a fabulous 'what bullshit!' analysis of 'the vegetarian myth' here, which I like for similar reasons relevant to this thread:

http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/09/review-of-the-vegetarian-myth.html

When I'm healthy, it's in spite of my diet; if I get sick, it's bound to be because of it... do I have that about right?!

'At risk for deficiency' describes anyone who isn't paying attention to what they eat. Period. Eat well; supplement B12 to play it safe, even if you think you eat enough; check out advice from vegan-friendly RD's at vrg.org, pcrm.org, etc, and if you're not sure (based on best nutritional research available) that you're getting enough of something you need... then eat more of it, or supplement... but let's make decisions based on actual reality, hmmm?! Current best research simply doesn't support the ex-vegan author's case; saying 'it's so' doesn't make it so. And that's all I'm seeing, in both this account & Keith's. Back it up, or quit talking! That's my view.

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I got bored with the article. I've read a few of the "I'm sick and I blame you veganism!" articles. Plus, I hear these arguments all the time from the meatatarians. I actually feel better, healthier, and more energetic after giving up meat.

I read thru the comments from the blogger's faithful. I was upset by the guy who was like - I used to be vegan..I'm a hardcore animal activist..I only eat animals I know have had happy lives..yada yada..

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HCM- I've only read the first article so far but it is excellent. Someone in the comments brought up the thing that bothered me the most as well:

Quote:
Histirionics and attention getting.
Quote:
My point is this:  I don't care if you've started scarfing down meat.  I do, but it is your "decision.  However, I didn't like the posturing, the drama, the self-serving hyperbole.  And all the salivating and pretense.

It seemed like an extremely over dramatic, whiny, self-righteous and attention getting post. She sounds like a born-again evangelical meat eater.

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Put me down for a :rolling eyes: vegan. 

She can eat whatever she wants, I don't care about that part, but her story kept changing - first she had a balanced whole-foods diet, then she ate veggie burgers.  If the issue is that people need animal nutrients, she could have stopped at eggs, but she eats meat, which blows her blaming it on veganism.  She comes across as being uninformed and lazy about her diet more than anything else - she's not the first and won't be the last.

I read this a week or so back and I think somewhere in amongst all the bullshit she says that because she believed eggs/dairy were so caught up with the meat industry that there was no point being a vegetarian and so she went straight into vegan, the same works in reverse, there's no point just starting with eggs again, she might as well be a full-blown omni.....

righhhht.

I can't get over how all her posts since have been smothered in cheese and meat, how the hell did her body not react worse to all that crap?

And the "I felt better as soon as I swallowed my first bite of meat" bollocks?  Whatever.

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Yeah, in the first article that HCM posted the author was talking about that. She said that all of her posts since then have been, "BACON!!! CHEESE!!!! OMG I'M EATING FOOD!!!!!!"  ::)

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for example:

Tasha wrote:
One of my favorite dishes was Tartiflette – a dish from the Savoie region made by layering potatoes with caramelized onions and bacon, drizzles of creamy sauce, and plopping an entire wheel of Reblochon cheese on top and baking it away in the oven. So rich, so delicious, so perfect.

because if you've got health problems, clearly what's lacking from your diet is a meal including an entire wheel of cheese.

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I don't really know what to think about this. If I were seriously unhealthy in the long term and found that no dietary changes within the vegan spectrum helped, I too would consider re-introducing a small amount of eggs (I'm essentially lactose-intolerant - milk would not be a good road to optimum health for me) into my diet, but never meat. Plenty of people have famously and healthily lived on vegetarian diets, and I'm sure a very small amount of animal products could balance out any issues I was having. I do find her return to eating abundant amounts of meat to be a tad on the unnecessary side, though. :\

I also find her tone confusing in general. She goes from praising vegans and saying that some can live healthily that way to implying that every healthy vegan sneaks animal products in secret, and projecting traits of immaturity and naivete on them. She even completely regrets the fact that she was vegan at all. I just don't get it, and it makes her viewpoint unappealing to me.

Meh. I just really hope I'm never in that position.

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;D  ::)  That's another point that the article posted by HCM pointed out. If you have B12 and iron deficencies, bacon covered cheese isn't going to help you. What happened to all of that health and nutrition crap she was talking about?

Why the hell did she tag it "Global Vegan"?

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I also find her tone confusing in general. She goes from praising vegans and saying that some can live healthily that way to implying that every healthy vegan sneaks animal products in secret, and projecting traits of immaturity and naivete on them. She even completely regrets the fact that she was vegan at all. I just don't get it, and it makes her viewpoint unappealing to me.

Exactly! I've got to be honset and say that I thought her entire post was fake. It sounded to me like she just wanted to eat meat again and if she wanted to, fine but can you at least be honest about it? Do you have to attempt to put down others and go all out insane about it?

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