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so what's up with the religious right??? do they really think obama is a commie?

because i think that if christians really practiced what they preach... they would want to give to the poor.

because i think that if christians really practiced what they preach... they would want to give to the poor.

Many Christians give 10% of their income to the church they belong to... I plan on doing the same when I am not living my life pay check to pay check... The church uses the money to give to the poor, for missionaries, etc... No one is perfect, we are all hypocrites and sinners so why judge?

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we are all hypocrites and sinners so why judge?

two things:
1)  sure... everyone is a hypocrite... BUT some are blantant hypocrites.  for example... i love jesus and homosexuals are gonna burn in hell.  oh... and by the way... i got caught having an affair with a man.... while smokin' crystal meth.  and i mentor the president (ted haggard for example).  and i run the biggest evangelical church in the west. 

i'm no where near that kind of hypocrite.

2)  we are all sinners?  what is sin?  and who says it's sin?

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oh...

and you'll only give to jesus when you're rolling in the dough?  (no offense)

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yes there have been some very bad "religious" people who have made big mistakes but i wouldn't say that's the majority...

yes humans are all sinners... they make mistakes,bad judgment calls, unethical decisions, etc... you know you are sinning when your conscience tells you what your are doing is wrong IMO so let your conscience be your guide (LOL cheesy i know)

i wouldn;t have to be rolling in dough to give but right now i can hardly afford to pay my rent and bills, so 10% of my income would not be possible...

plus i'm a total hypocrite myself... haven't gone to church in quite awhile... whatever that's life

oh and what do you mean by religious right exactly?

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by religious right i mean conservative christians that vote republican.

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The followers (Christians) are not adequate depictions of the faith itself or of morality.

People Fuck up. They do.  Some also change and they realize that in the past they may have been really horrible people.  People work with what info they're given.  Unfortunately some pastors in Christian churches are mis led, and thus they mislead others with their false information.

For some reason along the way, A lot of Christians have been convinced that God is republican and so they hate Democrats regardless of viewpoint.  In TRUTH God doesn't HAVE a political party, I mean why would He/She?

So these people that do this... are highly misled and confused individuals who are, ironically, Trying to do what they think is right. Most of them have not been gently exposed to the fact that there is another side to things. They've either been yelled at or not exposed at all.

I'm not defending them, they should search for the truth instead of just swallowing what they're given, I'm just saying, I used to be one of these people. I didn't even know what a democrat was until i got to college. I was raised to think they were evil and liars and not Christian, thus against God. So some of it is ignorance. Some of the, however, probably really do believe that God doesn't want us to give to the poor. Unfortunately.

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you shouldn't put people in a box.  Not all christians are republicans, and not all non christians are democrats. 

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you shouldn't put people in a box.  Not all christians are republicans, and not all non christians are democrats. 

this reminds me of something though.... not all republicans are racists... but all racists are republicans.

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I hate labels, because they seek to put people in a box. I am very conservative, but not the least bit religious. I have nothing against Christians, nor do I have anything against communists either. I am vegan because I want to be, and not because I want to represent a particular viewpoint. I just wish that liberals and conservatives would butt out of each other's business. We'll let you have your abortions, pot, and homosexuality, if you let us have our guns, freedom of association, and religion (for those who desire it). It seems fair to me...

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fufu: how would people know if God is republican or not? i have never even heard of this! crazyness

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because i think that if christians really practiced what they preach... they would want to give to the poor.

People can claim to be anything they want to be.  That doesn't make those claims true.  I personally don't like to use the word Christian anymore, because it is so commonly misapplied that it has no meaning. 

There is a huge difference between giving to the poor and being heavily taxed.  Granted some of that money goes to the poor, but not most of it.  Also ,many would argue that private charities use their funds more judiciously than the government. 

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fufu: how would people know if God is republican or not? i have never even heard of this! crazyness

I have heard it plenty.  It IS indeed, crazyness.

BTW  As you have seen in this forum, there is at least one conservative who is not Christian.

I am a Christian, but I'm pretty liberal.

SO yeah... Like lubi said.....

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One thing to remember is that Hispanics are statistically known to vote Democrat and they are most often Catholic. The area of Texas where we are looking to move is 65% Hispanic, so it's one of the only major Texas cities with a Democratic mayor. Yay! My father has always been a diehard liberal when it comes to politics, but he's also a very faithful Catholic. My Mom voted for Obama, the first time in a couple elections that she didn't vote Republican and I was so proud!

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Religious right is another box society has tried to put some of us into. It pissed me off when Bush was elected for another term and the media pushed terms like "moral majority" and "values voters". I'm an atheist and I'm a liberal and damn proud of both labels of which I've been stamped. Am I not moral? Do I not have values? 

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It pissed me off when Bush was elected for another term and the media pushed terms like "moral majority" and "values voters". I'm an atheist and I'm a liberal and damn proud of both labels of which I've been stamped. Am I not moral? Do I not have values?   

Nope -- sorry!

In the early days of the US, Robert Ingersoll, Thomas Paine, Elizabeth Cady Stanton, & their philosophical kin proposed loudly/ intelligently/ frequently that personal ethics & morality are NOT dependent on any religion; that the concept of 'right' and 'wrong' are applicable in the here-and-now, not dependent on anyone's/ any religion's fanciful  notion of 'heaven' or 'hell' or their (many would say, made-up) rules for entrance into same... that organized religion had in fact caused more and bloodier wars than anything else in human history, had propped up and condoned human slavery, had systematically victimized and abused women, had generated conflict and division among countrymen, and had generally been a force acting AGAINST the encouragement of ethical behavior among fellow human beings... they convinced enough people to deflect church-based outrage at abolition & women's suffrage, and defuse many simmering clonflicts between religion & science, at the time...

But during the McCarthy era, atheism/ agnosticism (as well as any social policy not supported by conservatives) was repeatedly and aggressively  painted to mean 'communist', by politicians and preachers who stood to gain from this labeling system... The media followed suit (anti-communist sensationalism sold papers, after all!). Unfortunately there were no strong secular ethicist figures at the time (a la Ingersoll or Stanton) to re-frame it, in the public mind... by demonizing non-believers as communists, and later as the accursed godless secular humanists (ptooey!) responsible for the promiscuity and drug use of the 60's,  the  fundamentalist evangelicals appropriated any & all claim on 'morality' or 'values'; and the country went along with it (in our traditional, unquestioning, media-gullible way). By the end of the 80s, it was an entrenched monopoly... blech.

So now, you only count as having 'values' if you agree w/ Billy Graham about everything; want church & state to be a happy couple w/ many many PDAs; & would rather be attacked by flesh-eating bacteria than see gay marriage made legal. (eye roll!)

And, of course: Obama is a commie. (You'd think they could at least come up with something NEW!)

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hotcooknmama: Of course! My lunch is now over and I just read your post...so it's off to work I go. I just wanted to say - I will reply to your comments and you have some kickass references to society repeating history. When will people learn? Ok...gotta go...

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hotcooknmama: Ok...where were we?

I like how you brought out Thomas Paine..a great influence on our nation. He was the one who invented the lightbulb right? Kidding! Anyhow, you obviously had some great arguments in your post. The witch hunts that have occurred in our society over the years have also had great influence on our nation...even though that influence has not been great. It's sad that some of us are giving our power over to these people (e.g. Billy Graham) who influence their views on rights and wrongs. 

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I vote republican, and I think that wacky left-wing radicals are just as obnoxious/ludicrous than the conservative Christians. Radical one way or another is still radical. Sorry, but some of the posters on this board fit into the extreme leftism I speak of.

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Agreed, secondbase. There are extreme nutjobs on both ends of the spectrum.

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I vote republican, and I think that wacky left-wing radicals are just as obnoxious/ludicrous than the conservative Christians. Radical one way or another is still radical. Sorry, but some of the posters on this board fit into the extreme leftism I speak of.

So... just to clarify... am I a wacky left-wing radical if I DON'T think Obama's a commie?  ;)

I think that SO many American voters, from both sides, have forgotten how to talk about *ideas*... we can see things very differently, and neither of us be crazy... the position 'if you disagree with me, you're a crazy radical!'' is neither original nor particularly compelling -- but surfaces CONSTANTLY in modern political 'debate.' Unhelpful! (Prob'ly not what you were saying, SB -- hopefully! -- your comment just made me think of this point, based on personal experience/ political threads on other sites...)

Nutjobs abound, in any human endeavor... but disagreeing with me (or whoever) doesn't make anyone one! it's like a pre-existing condition (which thanks to Obama's reforms, doesn't disqualify anyone from participation! hehe!) In the south, where I live, demonizing the other side (whichever it is!) passes for 'debate' like 90% of the time... not the best strategy, imo! wish more people would talk about the reasons behind their disagreement/ explore possible compromises & solutions... I think that'd be a more promising approach! (but I'm not especially optimistic about our society's ability to do that... blech.)

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