Pro-choice and veg*n?
Hello VegWeb, it's been a while. I was reminded to log in the other day when I got into a debate with a friend about abortion. She challenged that as a veg*n I should also be pro-life by default, which led me into a pretty interesting examination of why I agree with these two philosophies.
I personally maintain that legalising abortion allows women to make important decisions regarding their bodies and futures, and brings the numbers of those seeking dangerous backstreet abortions down. In those countries which legalise abortion, such as my native England, I consider it a right of women in need, although never a method of birth control. Legal limits for abortion exist for a reason; if it isn't a viable foetus, I don't consider it murder.
As a veg*n, I neither support nor participate in the slaughter or torture of animals because I believe that compassion and right should not be extended only to those who have the ability to ask for them. I couldn't kill an animal (except in absolute, last-chance-to-survive emergency), and if I eat meat that's being done on my behalf.
Looking at the reasoning behind my support for legal abortion and veg*nism, I don't feel hypocritical for my decisions.
What about you, dear VegWebbers? Are you inherently conflicted? Which way does your allegiance lie on this tricky moral question?
Fetus is just the Latin word for Baby.
A baby is the most wonderful thing that life has to offer - how could a child ever be a punishment?
I cannot imagine killing a human being for, say, being handicapped, or being conceived out of wedlock before being born any more than after it was born.
A baby has brain waves stareting at 5 weeks gestation - and there is every reason to believe that he or she feels pain, too.
Read the descriptions of abortions in the famous supreme court cases (such ast this one http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=99-830) -and seriously think through whether you can approve of babies being deprived of life that brutally, while disapproving much more comparatively humane treatment of farm animals.
You don't have to tell me how a baby forms or when it begins A, B, and C. I have a biology degree, I took human development, anatomy, etc. You're not opening my mind to anything new here.
A child is a punishment if the mother does not want to carry it to term. A child is a punishment if said child ruins the mother's life, changes her plans unwillingly, or makes her sick or kills her. If the mother does not wish to supply her body and nutrients to the child, why should someone else make her?
And sorry, but there are more convoluted reasons for abortion than the child being developmentally delayed or "being born out of wedlock." Like I said, life is never black and white. I don't care if anybody gets an abortion, I just want women to have the right to say what occurs in their own bodies. I still cannot grasp why there are people that think they have the right to tell another woman what to do with her uterus. Like it or not, it's her uterus.
yes, but inside that uterus is a living human being, and no child should EVER be consider a punishment. I understand bad things happen every day, and yes, there are a few justifiable reasons to have an abortion (IMO), but as a method of birth control, that's just wrong. plain and simple. These are living babies, who did not chose to be conceived and who do not have a voice of their own, someone has to speak for them.
I posit that it's not for the lay public (i.e. anyone NOT carrying my fetus) to determine what goes on inside my uterus.
If & when the possibility of taking the embryo OUT of my body to gestate elswhere becomes an option, then it may be appropriate to revisit this topic-- not before.
As Tweety said earlier, there's a point where I guess we just have to agree to disagree... Most people have strong convictions about this issue, which aren't subject to change. I respect anyone who is trying to make the most ethical decisions possible; but kicking & screaming will I be dragged back to the point where society offers only back-alley coathanger jobs to women who DO see termination as their least-harm option.
yes, but inside that uterus is a living human being, and no child should EVER be consider a punishment. I understand bad things happen every day, and yes, there are a few justifiable reasons to have an abortion (IMO), but as a method of birth control, that's just wrong. plain and simple. These are living babies, who did not chose to be conceived and who do not have a voice of their own, someone has to speak for them.
Do you honestly think that there are woman all over the world that use abortion as BIRTH CONTROL? As in, an active choice? Please. Even if a woman chooses to have an abortion, it's not a simple and easy choice. There are emotional repercussions, and most women speak of the pain it caused them even years later. Give women some credit here. Do you know the hormones that are produced at conception and during pregnancy? They exist for a reason--to tie a woman to her child. It's incredibly difficult to overcome these impulses and to make a usually extremely difficult if not logical decision. The women getting abortions are not Jezebels that are running all over the countryside with their vaginas hanging out. They are real women in real situations dealing with everyday situations, trying to do the best they can with the situation they have. Until you have walked a single second in their shoes, how do you feel you have the right to make their decisions?
Also, as birth control? Abortions cost about 10 times the price of a year's worth of birth control. Do you honestly think that women are using this as a means of birth control? How does that make sense?
Again, like I've said twice before, a child IS a punishment if that child is not wanted. For that child NOT to be considered a punishment, then the woman should have the right to terminate the pregnancy, to live her life and move on from her mistake. Men walk away from pregnancies every day. Women should have that option, too.
As Tweety said earlier, there's a point where I guess we just have to agree to disagree... Most people have strong convictions about this issue, which aren't subject to change. I respect anyone who is trying to make the most ethical decisions possible; but kicking & screaming will I be dragged back to the point where society offers only back-alley coathanger jobs to women who DO see termination as their least-harm option.
Once again, you bring the insight. I will not change my mind, and honestly, I do not expect to change the mind of anyone else. I just wish that people could see that not everybody is raised in white suburb, middle class America. With different situations come different options and choices.
I think the argument gets muddled in pro-life versus what is perceived as pro-abortion, when it's actually pro-choice. I don't think there should be laws telling people they can't eat meat, I don't think there should be laws telling people they must remove their appendix at age 23, and I don't think there should be laws telling women what to do with their uterus.
Choice.
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Tweety, I like and respect you, so I'm going to chill out. Promises!
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Tweety, I like and respect you, so I'm going to chill out. Promises!
Promises. Promises.
I thought I was saying something new about "abortion for birth control" which is practiced in countries like Russia and China, I did go on a tangent rant about the "it's my uterus"....and broke my promise to myself to stay out of it, so I went back and xx'd it out. That's kind of like self control isn't it? LOL
xxxxxxxxxx
Tweety, I like and respect you, so I'm going to chill out. Promises!
Promises. Promises.
I thought I was saying something new about "abortion for birth control" which is practiced in countries like Russia and China, I did go on a tangent rant about the "it's my uterus"....and broke my promise to myself to stay out of it, so I went back and xx'd it out. That's kind of like self control isn't it? LOL
There's nothing new, really. It's all been said before, and it will continue in a circular fashion until the end of time....
(I must say, though, women in Russia and China don't exactly have the same rights to their bodies as women in the US do, for instance. Their governments have a say in the functioning of their uteruses, or at least did in the past in the case of Russia...). Oh, christ. I can't stop!
I can't even say agree to disagree--but rather, agree that it's all been said and it's kind of a waste of time! :)
Well "agree to disagree" really means "I'm right and you're wrong...end of discussion". LOL
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