maybe a can of worms but...
Posted by arabella5c on Dec 16, 2008 · Member since Dec 2008 · 8 posts
...i am curious...i am wondering (if anyone wants to share) why you all have chosen to eat vegan.....or vegan rather than vegetarian....
concern for animals, health benefits, combo of the above? just curious?!
me personally, i'm trying to replace a lot of unhealthy food choices by stocking up on lots of wonderful, cancer-fighting yummy veggies. and also, i have recently become more concerned about the very sad practices of the meat industry. i have known about it for years, but never really had the wherewithall to really make a choice about it until recently. i guess maybe i've just finally developed a little discipline. food has always been my "drug" of choice.
I can't think of one beneficial reason to consume meat from a health standpoint. It's loaded with chemicals, toxins, drugs, etc...(all of which VegWebers certainly know). That said, I still consume some dairy and honestly, feel hypocritical at times. So, I do think I'm heading in the right direction of becoming vegan. For me personally, I stopped consuming meat because I would tell some asshole that hated animals that I did in fact love them, they'd come back with the usual, "well, you eat meat, don't you?" I realized I didn't have any defense to that statement and it was a valid argument from their perspective. One thing that I still don't understand completely is this seemingly blatant contempt from meat eaters towards people who don't. I know many here have probably encountered similar disdain over the years. Even when I was eating meat, I respected people who didn't. Any ideas why this resentment exists?
We're threatening.
It's hard to explain, and I don't think about it too in-depth because it's hard to wrap my brain around.
Let's discuss it on a smaller-scale. My dad, for instance. My dad made the point last night when I was on the phone with him (they live far away :-[) that he'd just bought some new liverwurst and wouldn't I want some?
He knows with 100% certainty that I don't eat meat, and that his constant prodding at me probably has to do with why I stopped eating meat (my family raises their own animals to eat). Yet, he does it. Sometimes he seems to get really quiet if I ask mom to set some gravy aside before she adds sausage, or if we go out to eat and I'm trying desperately to find something without meat because we HAD to go to a steakhouse because dad wanted a steak.
So, he knows that he's being obnoxious, yet he does it anyway, and he looks at my choice of food as if there's something wrong with me and I don't make any sense.
I think it's because he knows I do it for moral reasons, and I must therefor think he's immoral when he eats meat. Since he doesn't think he's immoral, he makes a big deal of it... because he's gotta be right. He has seen first-hand how animals end up on his plate and he's very proud of what he and the rest of his siblings do to feed their families. Hey, I think it's better too... it's not factory farming, and they treat the cows and pigs well when they're alive. There's no extra hormones in the meat, there's no artificial dyes or whatnots....
I don't think my dad is immoral, we just have different ideas. I can respect that. He has a hard time... I think because he sees himself on the losing end. Especially since I don't argue, and when I don't argue it generally means I think I'm right, and I don't need to argue. In this case, I don't argue because I'm still trying to keep a civil relationship with my dad. We've never seen eye to eye on anything, really.
By the way, I'm surprised and happy about how awesome everyone is being in this thread! I thought it would be a can of worms, too!
;)b
I went vegan when I was 18, and went off to college. I thought it would be a good time, since I would be cooking for myself. I was never vegetarian. I thought it would be hypocritical of me to just be veg since I was doing it for animal rights reasons. I, too have pet chickens who lay eggs occasionally(they're bantams, so not often). And we eat them. Mainly my daughter, but me sometimes. I don't feel bad, nor do I feel not vegan(I know people will balk at THAT). I would feel much worse wasting food, and I know my chickens are happy and healthy.
I think it's because he knows I do it for moral reasons, and I must therefor think he's immoral when he eats meat.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Are we morally superior because we don't eat meat/dairy/eggs etc.? Do we think we're superior? That's the issue. I don't believe we are, but I'm sure many non-veggies see us as thinking we are.
I think it's because he knows I do it for moral reasons, and I must therefor think he's immoral when he eats meat.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Are we morally superior because we don't eat meat/dairy/eggs etc.? Do we think we're superior? That's the issue. I don't believe we are, but I'm sure many non-veggies see us as thinking we are.
Admit it, we totally do a little bit :-D
I think it's because he knows I do it for moral reasons, and I must therefor think he's immoral when he eats meat.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Are we morally superior because we don't eat meat/dairy/eggs etc.? Do we think we're superior? That's the issue. I don't believe we are, but I'm sure many non-veggies see us as thinking we are.
Admit it, we totally do a little bit :-D
An eensy-weensy bit ;)
People are always so careful around me about meat products, etc, but I'm like, dude, it's your decision. I can inform you of why I chose this way for me, but if you don't really want to hear it, I'm not going to waste my time, you know? I'd be happy to sit down with someone and explain why, but I'm not going to sit and preach to someone about why I feel their choice is "wrong"; it's not my decision to make. I made my OWN decision and I'm happy with it. Does that make any sense?
I think it's because he knows I do it for moral reasons, and I must therefor think he's immoral when he eats meat.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Are we morally superior because we don't eat meat/dairy/eggs etc.? Do we think we're superior? That's the issue. I don't believe we are, but I'm sure many non-veggies see us as thinking we are.
Admit it, we totally do a little bit :-D
Yeah, maybe. On my part, though, if I know someone has thought about their food choices and is comfortable with them, that's their deal. But if you just gobble up take-out pizza or chug glasses of milk without thinking about it, well... maybe you should think about it. I totally respect people's food choices, when they're choices - and not just... societal based actions. Make sense?
Awkward situation:
I have a new job, right? I don't know my coworkers/bosses very well, right? Okay, well then the office Christmas party comes around and I have to go to it, because it's actually during office hours. They close the office and just go party on a yacht. Awesomeness... right?
So, for lunch we went to a seafood restaurant, which is normal considering it's Louisiana. The only vegetarian thing I can find is a spinach salad and a baked potato. No biggie... they have a unique creole mustard dressing, so I thought I'd try that out... spice it up a bit... literally! Everyone else got ridiculously huge seafood meals. I thought I'd just look like I was on a strict diet. No prob.
I sat beside one of the partners of the firm, he's an older guy and very cool. Kinda reminds me of my grandpa. He's fun. They ordered tons of appetizers, everything had seafood in it... so I politely passed on it all. Tried to be invisible because I didn't want to get the questions... but apparently I'm not good at being invisible. The office manager, who was sitting nearby mentioned to someone else that I probably didn't like seafood, since I'm from West Virginia. I was gonna go with that... then she asked me "Do you not eat seafood?"
I had to think fast! Do I just say "Nah" and end up going through the same thing when they take me to a steakhouse? Or do I go with the truth and be uncomfortable but honest?
I went with "Oh! No, no... I just don't eat meat." I acted very nonchalant, really! No big deal. Brush it off.
Then the partner says "You don't eat meat? So you're vegetarian? How long have you been? And why, if you don't mind me being curious?"
Now.... he asked this as he was swirling an oyster around in cocktail sauce. Which was gross, and made it hard to answer... like, what do I say? Which reason is the least offensive to my new boss who is slurping oysters??
So, I chose "Ah, you know, my family raises animals for meat, so I kinda grew up seeing it and decided I didn't want to eat it." That seemed to go over alright, and he said "Yeah, I guess that makes pretty good sense, you know. Seeing that would make anyone not want to eat it. So... this is close enough to meat you don't eat it either?" Motioning to the chunk of slimy oyster meat.
???
I just said "Umm, right. When in doubt, you know.... err on the safe side."
Like... what do I say to that? I felt so awkward. But at least I won't have to be a surprise again at the next office dinner.
About 1/3 of my culinary class is vegetarian and at least one vegan (me). It's like there was this silent agreement among us not to bring up the subject of not eating meat. (Though on most days there is the usual meeting in the corner where we moan and groan about the meat being cooked.) We all are open to people asking us questions and all of us seem to enjoy their asking. We don't hide our beliefs we just don't ...ohhh I don't know...flaunt doesn't seem quite the right word....well we knew we would have to study meat and cuts and cooking meat and alal that when we signed up...still we signed up because we wanted the certification and technical training ya know?
I did have a group of the non-vegetarians come up to me and ask why I was vegan. I told them when I learned that it takes about 16 lb. of grain to feed a cow to get 1 lb. of hamburg the math wasn't good enough. I mean how many people can you feed with 16 pounds of grain versus one pound of hamburg? Over 80 percent of the grain grown goes to feed livestock and the rest to feed humans? IMO a Big Mac is not more important than a human life. Then I just went "Well that was my soapbox moment!" They seemed to respect me for it though...no one has made fun of it or anything bad.....asked a hell of a lot of questions though....still looking up some of the answers.
jc - I dunno. I'm Aries, so I say everything bluntly. If your boss asked me that while he was swirling an oyster in cocktail sauce I'd say, "I'm vegan. I don't eat any animal products, including fish. How's the cocktail sauce? Did they add a special ingredient?"
People love to talk about themselves. Use it to your advantage.
I've gotten alot of questions and criticism from people, mostly my uncles and father.
Though I do like it (alot more now) because I am pretty well-informed and sound more understandable then when you just start out and not know alot.
My mom's pretty cool, she'll make stuff for me and even ask for me to send her recipes and websites with recipes.
And my friends used to ask if it was okay to eat meat in front of me! I was like... well, duh.
My room-mate asked me about meat in the refrigerator... of course, as long as its not dripping on my veggies, I'm fine! haha.
He even uses a particular pan when he makes his meat food! Its awesome to have friends like that!
JC, Katie went to an office party the other day at a steakhouse. She ordered a vegetable quesadilla (neither of us are vegan) and when her food came out, her coworkers cheered and clapped because she was eating cheese.
WTF is wrong with people?
I eat eggs. My mother has an organic garden and raises chickens. I've met each one and know them by name. I know their diet and I talk to them when I visit.
wow , good for you.
I don't think it's wrong to eat meat, it's the natural food chain. I've come around to the fact that since we (humans) are so much smarter than most livestock/food stuff animals, agriculture is culturally natural. That being said, I became a vegan because we're smart enough to know better. Factory farming just isn't acceptable, or necessary. There's no reason to torture something, lower nutritional value, contaminate water sources and lower the overall quality of meat except to increase profits. It's selfish greedy on the part of "farmers". Not to mention the amount of rainforests that are being destroyed in countries like Brazil to account for our growing beef appetite. Industrial methods of producing meat isn't good for anyone. period.
Meat shouldn't be such a huge part of our diet. As someone else mentioned, it's hugely inefficient to produce. As North Americans, we use an exponential amount of world resources relative to our population size. This just isn't fair, people are starving and we're feeding FOOD to FOOD. I also try to avoid sweatshop produced goods, whenever possible. I think the world is going to hell in a handbasket, and we north Americans are too comfortable to do much about it. So I really respect all of you, and other veg*ns who sacrifice comfort and luxury (it's nasty now, but when we ate meat almost all of us enjoyed it) because we're not the panet's priority.
sorry to be such a downer.
People are always so careful around me about meat products, etc, but I'm like, dude, it's your decision. I can inform you of why I chose this way for me, but if you don't really want to hear it, I'm not going to waste my time, you know? I'd be happy to sit down with someone and explain why, but I'm not going to sit and preach to someone about why I feel their choice is "wrong"; it's not my decision to make. I made my OWN decision and I'm happy with it. Does that make any sense?
Totally agreed. :)
No Deleware I don't think your a 'downer' at all. It's all about the choices we make and knowing that our choices CAN make a difference. It seems to me (now take into account I am a child of the '60s who ADORED protest marches and such) that there is this feeling now of "Nothing I do will make a difference anyway." What happened? When, how did we lose our sense of importance?
I try to eliminate sweatshop stuff too. I generally only buy from secondhand stores (or thrift, if that's not the right word)
I wanted to find out more, but the only site I've heard of is sweatshopwatch.org... and its not working... either that or my server just doesn't let me go to it.
I don't think it's wrong to eat meat, it's the natural food chain. I've come around to the fact that since we (humans) are so much smarter than most livestock/food stuff animals, agriculture is culturally natural.
How did you reach that conclusion? "Culturally natural" with respect to what culture? I kind of don't get it. That sounds like many of the arguments used to justify slavery in the south. Just the first thing that came to mind...
I am vegan because I find the acts of eating meat and eating dairy or eggs morally indistinguishable. I don't think human beings have a right to assume dominion over other animals, especially when we are capable of empathizing with others' pain. I am vegan because it does not require me to sacrifice much and requires very little effort except choosing different foods when I grocery shop. I want to live in a way that does the least harm and the most good. I also believe that being vegan is he best thing I can do for myself. Win-win.
The environmental aspects of veganism are important to me, but even if it were equivalent to eat a meat-based diet and a plant-based diet (in terms of environmental effects), and even if it were healthy to eat meat, I still wouldn't. I pretty much 100% at the ethics/animal rights end of the spectrum.
How did you reach that conclusion? "Culturally natural" with respect to what culture? I kind of don't get it. That sounds like many of the arguments used to justify slavery in the south. Just the first thing that came to mind...
See, I found this part more important:
I became a vegan because we're smart enough to know better. Factory farming just isn't acceptable, or necessary.
Really, KMK, that's kinda splitting hairs since Del doesn't eat meat... whatever her reason is. It sounds to me like you actually agree with her reason itself, you just didn't jive well with a couple of particulars.
Remember, we are not a can of worms. We are not a can of worms. We are not a can of worms.
Really, KMK, that's kinda splitting hairs since Del doesn't eat meat... whatever her reason is. It sounds to me like you actually agree with her reason itself, you just didn't jive well with a couple of particulars.
Nah, I fundamentally disagree with that line of reasoning. But saying that I disagree doesn't mean I am looking for a fight. I was just asking a clarification question. But yeah, as more of an abolitionist, I principally disagree that eating meat is moral. Just my opinion. Y'all shared yours. The question was "why are you vegan." We happen to be vegan for distinct reasons. That can happen. That's just my personal truth, and I might step on some toes by sharing it.
I'll let myself out then.
Everyones reasons for choosing to be vegan/vegetarian makes me sound somewhat selfish.
I don't do it for the animals, environment or my health. Those are just kind of positive side effects.
I'm vegan because I don't want to be anything anyone wants or expects me to be. The little feminist inside of me says no to meat as a response to patriarchal society. lol sounds stupid but I don't know how to explain myself well.
It's a response/rejection of my culture (I'm middle-eastern) and gender roles (mostly cooking and being a "good wife").
Pretty selfish, eh? I never claimed to be compassionate and as a vegan for 3 years it still hasn't grown. If being vegan didn't piss so many people off (especially my family/relatives) I probably would not be one.
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