You are here

Marriage.

I don't really understand the stance against marriage. I do understand that it's horrid that not everyone can legally be married in our society, but I don't get how that translates to "I'm against marriage." I would like to hear more view points. Discussion.

Oh silly AC.

Ok, to be honest, I don't fully understand it. My guess is some people approach it from a feminist perspective, what with wife=property historically? And the whole wedding ceremony being weird in modern times (but you don't have to have one, on the other hand).

Perhaps others don't believe in monogamy in general?

0 likes

Yes, but wife does not = property now. You can write your own vows, and such. A stance against what marriage once was for some people in a totally different time? That seems....odd.

I guess I should make it clear that I truly don't care if a couple doesn't want to get married. Of course it doesn't matter to me. I just don't understand the marriage hate! All I see are benefits. I guess some people are against the fact that married people get benefits, so they just don't want to partake in the injustice?

I understand if someone doesn't want to live a monogamous lifestyle, he/she wouldn't want to get married. Shouldn't. That makes sense.

0 likes

my best friend is in a serious, long term, monogamous relationship, but they aren't interested in getting married because they see it as an expensive way to have a party in the name of being legitimised by either the church or the state .  I would say, just get married for yourselves, as a statement of your commitment to each other, on a small scale, without the expensive party, but I guess they actually feel that if they were to do it, they'd want it to be kind of proper after all. Which just means it keeps getting put off, and maybe they'll do it one day.
I don't know if that's even on topic, it's just an example of a perspective on marriage that I guess, for now, falls into the 'negative' category.

0 likes

I think the reasoning behind an opposition to marriage depends on which aspect of marriage the person in question opposes - the legal, the ceremonial, or both. I can see someone being against marriage as the result of a very strong individualist philosophy, perhaps, or the idea that 'traditional' marriage is outdated and trite. Of course, 'traditional' is far from the whole story, but I suppose it depends on perspective.

0 likes

I think the reasoning behind an opposition to marriage depends on which aspect of marriage the person in question opposes - the legal, the ceremonial, or both. I can see someone being against marriage as the result of a very strong individualist philosophy, perhaps, or the idea that 'traditional' marriage is outdated and trite. Of course, 'traditional' is far from the whole story, but I suppose it depends on perspective.

Traditional-marriage or wedding? Ok, people have gotten married for years, but why does that inherently make it bad? I guess this goes for "outdated," too.  It seems like going against something because it's what lots of people do. A couple obviously doesn't have to be married to stay together forever, but I'm still not comprehending the opposition to the marriage.

I understand what you're saying, oww, about the legal stand point. I gather that it's kind of like going against authority? We don't need anything to tell us that we're together forever, because we are, anyway..kind of thing? Ok.....but there's nothing to gain there. Making a statement?

haha, it's funny that the couple you are talking about feels that if they were to get married, they "might as well" do the whole, big thing, anyway. I wonder why they would feel that way, if they have those other strong feelings!

0 likes

Yeah, I take issue with the idea of opposing marriage just because it's a tradition, or just because it has an unsavory past (when it used to be essentially a contract signing away one's daughter to another man).  Those aren't reasons--or rather, they're no longer relevant.  "Society wants me to do it, so I'm not going to" is not a reason in and of itself.  Decide regardless of what society says.

I also take issue with the idea of not getting married because gay people can't get married in all states.  Many people I've spoken to in the gay community say that they don't think it makes sense for straight people to go about it that way, and that they don't care if straight people continue to marry.  It's not as if marriage is a business, and by boycotting the business you can incite change.  Change comes through other political activism.  The statement of opposing marriage accomplishes nothing.

I think many people who are adverse to marriage probably like the freedom that comes from knowing you are not stuck in that same relationship for ever.  

I'm really excited to get married, whenever I do!  I want to have a nice party to share with people how much I love that person.  I think it's great concept!  And I think that there are so many benefits to be had (not talking the legal ones) from committing yourself to marriage.  Scientists have shown that there are loads of health benefits associated with long term relationships (I can cite references if people are curious).

I guess I could see a polyamorous person not marrying, but besides that I don't know.

0 likes

Quite a few of the people I know who are in committed life-long partnerships yet not married do it because they don't agree with paying the fee for the license, see it as an unneeded tax. These are called 'common-law marriages'.

0 likes

I don't want to be married because I just don't see any reason for me, personally.
I'm not against it for other people.. it's just not for me.
Just like polyamory isn't for me.

I'm not into the whole "work 9/5 + marriage + kids = happiness" thing.
I've got other plans for myself.

0 likes

How do you think marriage will impinge upon your plans?  Do you want to be able to travel?  (Sincere question, just curious).  Do you plan to have monogamous relationships or just be single for life?  Have a series of monogamous relationships but put the kibosh on them when you realize that they are becoming too long term?

I don't think many of us here are likely to equate marriage with happiness.  I don't think to myself, "I MUST GET MARRIED TO BE HAPPY."  But I would expect that, when I have the right person, marrying that person will make me even happier.

I have plans to be very successful (wouldn't have it any other way!) and I can't imagine not having my best friend (i.e. husband) to support me in those endeavors.  That's how I feel right now about the boy I'm only dating.  If your partner is a hindrance to your endeavors, you probably shouldn't be with him in the first place.

I don't really feel like anyone has answered what is off-putting about marriage, specifically--I guess I get the tax, but that seems so minor.

0 likes

Quite a few of the people I know who are in committed life-long partnerships yet not married do it because they don't agree with paying the fee for the license, see it as an unneeded tax. These are called 'common-law marriages'.

To me, it would seem that if a couple did want to get married, the $40 (or whatever it is in the state) could be bypassed. Is that really the issue?

I'm not into the whole "work 9/5 + marriage + kids = happiness" thing.
I've got other plans for myself.

Ok...well what about "whatever plans you have for yourself + whatever you want to do + marriage"
I mean, if you don't want to be married, fine (obviously), but marriage doesn't have to = white dress, kids, white picket fence, and a mini van. Marriage does not mean kids. They are separate.

eta: posted at same time as KMK.

0 likes

I can't explain it to you because I don't want to convince anyone of anything, and that was never my point.
I think it's great other people want marriage - I don't.

you can be in love and be just as happy without a marriage.
Marriage should be signed in the heart, not to the state.

0 likes

Aw, I'm sorry that you won't explain it.  No one is trying to convince anyone of anything, just hear different points of view.  You should share yours--we're just curious about one another's opinions.  It's not much of a discussion if we all say "I believe this.  The end."  That doesn't allow much flow of ideas.

0 likes

That's fine, though. If you don't wanna, you don't wanna.

0 likes

How do you think marriage will impinge upon your plans?  Do you want to be able to travel?  (Sincere question, just curious).  Do you plan to have monogamous relationships or just be single for life?  Have a series of monogamous relationships but put the kibosh on them when you realize that they are becoming too long term?

I don't think many of us here are likely to equate marriage with happiness.  I don't think to myself, "I MUST GET MARRIED TO BE HAPPY."  But I would expect that, when I have the right person, marrying that person will make me even happier.

I have plans to be very successful (wouldn't have it any other way!) and I can't imagine not having my best friend (i.e. husband) to support me in those endeavors.  That's how I feel right now about the boy I'm only dating.  If your partner is a hindrance to your endeavors, you probably shouldn't be with him in the first place.

I don't really feel like anyone has answered what is off-putting about marriage, specifically--I guess I get the tax, but that seems so minor.

I'll answer, just don't want you to think I'm trying to convince you.
I partially answered your first question in the other thread.
But yes, I do want to travel. I have other plans that would be considered illegal and best to not be posted on a public board.
Yes, monogamous.
However, as I've stated.. I have never been one to date.
My plans are purely hypothetical, because guys have never had an interest in me and I just live a single life as of now.
If someone changes my mind someday, that will make it all the better.
But I could do long term without marriage. Other people do not want marriage, either.

0 likes

Quite a few of the people I know who are in committed life-long partnerships yet not married do it because they don't agree with paying the fee for the license, see it as an unneeded tax. These are called 'common-law marriages'.

To me, it would seem that if a couple did want to get married, the $40 (or whatever it is in the state) could be bypassed. Is that really the issue?

That is where the 'common-law' comes in. In many states, if you're living with a person for so many years, you're considered 'married' by the state. But yes, for many people who are politically minded, it is.

0 likes

I believe that you don't want it, I was just curious.  Thanks!

0 likes

i can't wait to get married (when we r both financially stable... no need to rush)... i hope our generation... after seeing many of our parents divorce, remarry, and divorce again... will take things slow, try to stick hard times out... marriage seems wonderful and i can't wait to share my life with someone who is both a lover and best friend... i see nothing wrong with marriage... i do think people should wait and date someone for quite a while (at least 2 years) because i feel like u don't really know everything about a person till at least 2 years hits imo

0 likes

That is where the 'common-law' comes in. In many states, if you're living with a person for so many years, you're considered 'married' by the state.

this actually isn't true. there is no state that considers a couple married simply for having lived together for X years. only a few states still recognize common law marriage today and many are grandfathering it out since it isn't needed. basically, you have to live together and hold yourself as married (and be hetero-dyadic). interestingly, if you are CL married in one state other states that don't recognize CL marriage would have to recognize your marriage b/c of the common faith and credit clause of the constitution. if a CL marriage ends, the couple also has to divorce. it's fascinating stuff.

http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/faqEditorial-29086.html

as for why not marriage, i think robin west makes a great argument in her book gender, sexuality and marriage (or something like that - those words, perhaps a different order). she claims that the government sanctioned marriage violates the US constitution because it favors and protects a class of citizens via marriage and that this violates equal protection clause of the constitution since marriage (due to law and esp. DOMA) is limited to heterosexual dyadic couples. the constitution says everyone has the right to equal treatment and marriage doesn't allow for that.

my personal issue with LEGAL marriage today is a) state doesn't need to be regulating people's sexual lives (esp as it champions one kind of relationship over others via the benefits and prestige that marriage offers). also, the state's understanding of marriage and they way they set it up is really null to the fact that the benefits attached to marriage - esp in terms of helping families provide care to children (i.e. the state benefiting from families paying for and spending the time to raise/socialize/care for children aka future citizens of the state) isn't a central defining factor in determining who marries. if this was REALLY the case, then we would see the government providing benefits to those doing care work. however, those without kids and those who can't even have kinds (i.e. a couple on their death bed) are allowed to marry if they meet the requirements in their state (marriage law varies by state) and pay the fee. marriage undermines care giving goals since those who can really benefit from the benefits the government created with childcare in mind - the poor unmarried couples, single parents, nontraditional family-care networks - can't have access to them. that's a little messed up to me.

also, some argue the benefits of marriage come from having social attachments - this can be met outside of marriage. Ross has a paper (marital status as a continuum of social attachment or something like that - JMF i think) that shows this. others on the pro-marriage camp have found a marriage benefit when controlling for the basics. but i think it also says a lot when we a) look at the selectivity of who in America gets married (increased chance if you are white and middle class) and b) add in attachment stuff - even Ross found that being in a bad marriage is worse than being single for outcomes that the pro-marriage camp tout. of course, they are looking at married/cohab/single/etc. but i think attachment/micro stuff is important to look at here.

anyways, that's my piece. i'll try to remember to come back to this thread. but in short, to me it isn't really a gay/straight or whatever issue - i see the issue with state marriage as being very problematic on a macro/institutional level.

0 likes

AC, I can see the reasoning that "society wants me to do it, so I won't," sort of. I think that it might not make a difference for a particular couple whether or not they're married (esp if they're not planning to have kids?), and the *only* motivation would be society wants you to get married. And there is a sort of social pressure for marriage, personally speaking as a long-term-relationship-er-now-doing-cohabitation.

0 likes

AC, I can see the reasoning that "society wants me to do it, so I won't," sort of. I think that it might not make a difference for a particular couple whether or not they're married (esp if they're not planning to have kids?), and the *only* motivation would be society wants you to get married. And there is a sort of social pressure for marriage, personally speaking as a long-term-relationship-er-now-doing-cohabitation.

Yeah, I can understand that. That's more of a just don't want to do it vs. hate it

bp, I'll have to decode your message, and then I can respond. ; )

0 likes

Pages

Log in or register to post comments

More Posts Like This