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How Vegan Are You?

Before I was pregnant, I considered myself completely vegan.  After being on here and reading more about the choices of other people (this was almost 4 years ago - I now label myself vegetarian - I ate cheese all through my pregnancy), I realize I probably wasn't completely vegan.  I didn't eat dairy or eggs, but in restaurants, I ate bread, baked products, ate chocolate, etc., and didn't read the label on all items I bought.  I actually don't eat dairy or eggs now, but realize I can't truly call myself vegan.  (Yes, I just ate a Reese's Pieces out of my daughter's halloween bag!)

This might sound like an ignorant question, but how hard is it to be a completely TRUE vegan?  Isn't it impossible to eat at restaurants?  Have relatives and friends been supportive when eating out or at holidays?

Waitwaitwait - you believe that vegans are idiots for believing that sentient beings have some value beyond their ability to turn a profit? That's horribly mercenary and kind of sad. I don't envy your worldview.

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I find the question "how vegan are you?" to be a little strange--I thought you were either vegan or you weren't....perhaps I'm looking at it too black and white? Perhaps this is the reason that omnis have no idea what being vegetarian (do you eat fish?) and vegan mean. Maybe I can't blame them.

The reason I'm vegan is because I don't want to support the slaughter of animals...thus, products with animal by-products in them are supporting this industry. I'm not saying this to be a jerk, I honestly want to know: you you don't care enough to check labels, why are you even bothering? I promise I'm not saying that to be judgmental, I'm just trying to understand the logic. If you don't eat meat, dairy or eggs outright,  but you eat things containing these ingredients, how is that any different?

I would never put food in my mouth unless I knew it was vegan--yes, eating out can be difficult at times, but I'm proud of my body and I care for it, and I only want to put real products into it. We also have the internet, which makes checking on restaurants before you go a no-brainer. I live in the middle of nowhere, Midwest and I can still find restaurants (it takes some work). Ignorance is not bliss, ignorance is ignorance. And this ignorance can still support the slaughter of animals and the exploiting system we hold over them.

As for the poster that said that vegans are idiots...I can't even find the original post. Hopefully they realized how out of touch they are and went back to the cave from whence they came. I find vegans to be deep, caring, intellectual and compassionate people, usually willing to hear others' points of view and be non-judgmental. I think the world's problems would be solved if everyone was a vegan, personally.

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Waitwaitwait - you believe that vegans are idiots for believing that sentient beings have some value beyond their ability to turn a profit? That's horribly mercenary and kind of sad. I don't envy your worldview.

(1)  I only said that "most" vegans are perceived as idiots, not all, and you are certainly welcome to prove me wrong.

(2)  I'm a philosopher, not a used car salesman - profits are irrelevant to me.  Natural Rights, on the other hand, is what free market capitalism is all about.

(3)  I'm also a computer programmer, and I can create an array of millions of "sentient" beings in just 10 lines of perl.  Rights come from an individual's capacity to pull one's own economic weight and to cooperate with other "rational economic actors" by respecting their rights.  Even human children do not get their full rights until they become capable of reason, and criminals that prove themselves incapable of respecting the rights of others lose some of their rights as the result.  An animal that is neurologically incapable of reasoning and functioning on a human level cannot have rights.  It exists only because its owner allows it to exist and finances its existence, and only on its owners terms.

(4)  I don't maintain and exercise my world-view to be envied, I do it because it is right.

As for the poster that said that vegans are idiots...  I can't even find the original post.

Catski followed my link to another forum and quoted me from there, with some loss of context.  My statement was still intentionally rude, but indirectly so, speaking of veganism as a stereotype and explaining why I'd rather call my vegan diet a "Tax Resister Diet" instead.

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I find the question "how vegan are you?" to be a little strange--I thought you were either vegan or you weren't

Ding ding ding!

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Waitwaitwait - you believe that vegans are idiots for believing that sentient beings have some value beyond their ability to turn a profit? That's horribly mercenary and kind of sad. I don't envy your worldview.

I think he joined vegweb forums to tick everyone off seriously just ignore him

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Waitwaitwait - you believe that vegans are idiots for believing that sentient beings have some value beyond their ability to turn a profit? That's horribly mercenary and kind of sad. I don't envy your worldview.

(1)  I only said that "most" vegans are perceived as idiots, not all, and you are certainly welcome to prove me wrong.

(2)  I'm a philosopher, not a used car salesman - profits are irrelevant to me.  Natural Rights, on the other hand, is what free market capitalism is all about.

(3)  I'm also a computer programmer, and I can create an array of millions of "sentient" beings in just 10 lines of perl.  Rights come from an individual's capacity to pull one's own economic weight and to cooperate with other "rational economic actors" by respecting their rights.  Even human children do not get their full rights until they become capable of reason, and criminals that prove themselves incapable of respecting the rights of others lose some of their rights as the result.  An animal that is neurologically incapable of reasoning and functioning on a human level cannot have rights.  It exists only because its owner allows it to exist and finances its existence, and only on its owners terms.

(4)  I don't maintain and exercise my world-view to be envied, I do it because it is right.

As for the poster that said that vegans are idiots...  I can't even find the original post.

Catski followed my link to another forum and quoted me from there, with some loss of context.  My statement was still intentionally rude, but indirectly so, speaking of veganism as a stereotype and explaining why I'd rather call my vegan diet a "Tax Resister Diet" instead.

So, why don't you join taxresisterdiet.com and stop downplaying our lifestyle choices? Veganism is NOT a diet, it's a way to parallel our lives with our morals and ideas of how we think the world can be. So, I think you're on the wrong website.

It's funny, because of the 25 or so PhDs I work with, a vast majority of them are vegetarians and vegans...but they're idiots, right? Yeah, you've definitely got it figured out.

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Okay, this makes more sense. I started reading about sometimes eating dairy/eggs and products with them, and I think I got sidetracked with the diet aspect. Now I'm up to date with the thread's idea.

I actually think this is a really good idea to discuss, and it's one that I have a vested interest in. I have some leather and wool things leftover from when I wasn't vegan, and they're all over a year old, many things are 4-5 years old. I don't want to just throw things out that are in fine shape, but I still feel bad owning these things. It's hard to be wasteful, and at the same time I feel hypocritical.

What type of make-up do you use now? I haven't purchased make-up since I went vegan (that's a scary thought! It's been almost a year!), and I don't know what a good brand would be. It seems like the brands I look at are all really expensive, and I'd rather just not wear any, if it's going to cost me so much!

And don't feel bad for not thinking of it--they'll put animal products in everything! I'm always shocked, and my boyfriend is usually doubly shocked when I'm at the store and I'm like "Nope, we can't get that" and it's soap or something. It's all a process!

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What type of make-up do you use now? I haven't purchased make-up since I went vegan (that's a scary thought! It's been almost a year!), and I don't know what a good brand would be. It seems like the brands I look at are all really expensive, and I'd rather just not wear any, if it's going to cost me so much!

This might help: Official makeup..review

Be sure you check out etsy for vegan makeup. I've purchased bareescentuals (not everything is vegan), beautywithoutcruelty, and recently some ELF (not all vegan) stuff. I'm excited to try ELF, because it's so inexpensive. I think it's fairly well liked, and can be purchased at Target..and maybe other places. I bought some off drugstore.com.

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I find the question "how vegan are you?" to be a little strange--I thought you were either vegan or you weren't

http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/path.html#veganexample

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So, why don't you join taxresisterdiet.com and stop downplaying our lifestyle choices? 

I didn't come here to "downplay" veganism, I came here to respond to a thread that legitimizes government violence in the name of "animal rights".  The only reason why I have a negative opinion of most vegans is their politics.

It's funny, because of the 25 or so PhDs I work with, a vast majority of them are vegetarians and vegans...
but they're idiots, right? Yeah, you've definitely got it figured out.

Once again, I am not against vegans, I'm against "animal rights" legislation.

And having a Ph.D is not a guarantee of both virtue and intelligence, especially if it's in one of the softer sciences not really based on objective logic, or a field of research completely dominated by government-funded yes-men like climatology is today.  Hitler and Stalin had a whole lot of smart people working for them too.

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I find the question "how vegan are you?" to be a little strange--I thought you were either vegan or you weren't

http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/path.html#veganexample

That section of the article (I didn't read the whole thing) was a bit silly and a lot defeatist. 

Processed, refined sugar isn't necessary to people.  It's a luxury.  We can choose to consume sugar that doesn't involve animals in the processing because we have that option.  There's nothing wrong with exercising options.  Water isn't a luxury; it's necessary for life.  I imagine that a lot of plants use sand filters, but if they happen to use bone char, then we drink it.  Luxury versus necessity.

The other example of honey is also an example of luxury versus necessity.  Honey is a type of luxury sugar.  We have choices and we exercise making them.  Eating food is a necessity.  Harvesting grains and legumes results in some harm, but by being vegan we minimize the harm associated with our food.

At the end, the section discusses vegans don't drink wine  We do, but we exercise our option to chose wine (a luxury) not processed with animal products.  Or use medications.  We use medications when necessary, but not we don't abuse our access to them.  More people should try that.  Or take photographs, which I've never heard of.  Using an example to categorize the majority of vegans because a handful of vegans do something devalues the point. 

And then it discusses vegans incorporating political or religious ideologies into their food choices, or vice versa.  My friend is Taoist.  All Taoist groups are vegetarian and some are vegan.  I think the section is stating that Taoists are "unreasonable and irrational" because they are veg*n, which I think is unreasonable and irrational.

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What type of make-up do you use now? I haven't purchased make-up since I went vegan (that's a scary thought! It's been almost a year!), and I don't know what a good brand would be. It seems like the brands I look at are all really expensive, and I'd rather just not wear any, if it's going to cost me so much!

This might help: Official makeup..review

Be sure you check out etsy for vegan makeup. I've purchased bareescentuals (not everything is vegan), beautywithoutcruelty, and recently some ELF (not all vegan) stuff. I'm excited to try ELF, because it's so inexpensive. I think it's fairly well liked, and can be purchased at Target..and maybe other places. I bought some off drugstore.com.

Thanks for the names...I had checked out the review, but it was so much information and so comprehensive that I got overwhelmed! I basically just need a concealer for acne spots, and everything else is optional. Thanks for the heads up on those. I've seen elf at Target before! And it's cheap!  ;)b

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What type of make-up do you use now? I haven't purchased make-up since I went vegan (that's a scary thought! It's been almost a year!), and I don't know what a good brand would be. It seems like the brands I look at are all really expensive, and I'd rather just not wear any, if it's going to cost me so much!

This might help: Official makeup..review

Be sure you check out etsy for vegan makeup. I've purchased bareescentuals (not everything is vegan), beautywithoutcruelty, and recently some ELF (not all vegan) stuff. I'm excited to try ELF, because it's so inexpensive. I think it's fairly well liked, and can be purchased at Target..and maybe other places. I bought some off drugstore.com.

Thanks for the names...I had checked out the review, but it was so much information and so comprehensive that I got overwhelmed! I basically just need a concealer for acne spots, and everything else is optional. Thanks for the heads up on those. I've seen elf at Target before! And it's cheap!  ;)b

I ordered the Elf concealer, so we'll see how it is!

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the Elf mineral concealer?  Cuz that's great - it's all I have to use on my face.  But the liquid concealer in the little tube, not so good.

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the Elf mineral concealer?  Cuz that's great - it's all I have to use on my face.  But the liquid concealer in the little tube, not so good.

This one: http://a1468.g.akamai.net/f/1468/580/1d/pics.Drugstore.com/prodimg/163251/300.jpg

eta: uhoh..that might be the tube? I got some pressed powder, too.

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I find the question "how vegan are you?" to be a little strange--I thought you were either vegan or you weren't

http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/path.html#veganexample

I learned a lot from this, but I also disagree with a few things, and pulling in religion kind of confused me too. But, informative nonetheless.

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So, why don't you join taxresisterdiet.com and stop downplaying our lifestyle choices? 

I didn't come here to "downplay" veganism, I came here to respond to a thread that legitimizes government violence in the name of "animal rights".  The only reason why I have a negative opinion of most vegans is their politics.

It's funny, because of the 25 or so PhDs I work with, a vast majority of them are vegetarians and vegans...
but they're idiots, right? Yeah, you've definitely got it figured out.

Once again, I am not against vegans, I'm against "animal rights" legislation.

And having a Ph.D is not a guarantee of both virtue and intelligence, especially if it's in one of the softer sciences not really based on objective logic, or a field of research completely dominated by government-funded yes-men like climatology is today.  Hitler and Stalin had a whole lot of smart people working for them too.

I'm sorry to be a spoilsport, but I think you're boring. I'm done with this back and forth.

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No, AC, that's not the tube kind - never tried that one.

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I find the question "how vegan are you?" to be a little strange--I thought you were either vegan or you weren't

http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/path.html#veganexample

I learned a lot from this, but I also disagree with a few things, and pulling in religion kind of confused me too. But, informative nonetheless.

I think the section is stating that Taoists are "unreasonable and irrational" because they are veg*n, which I think is unreasonable and irrational.

Funny--as many times as I've read that, I never put the "unreasonable and irrational" together with "religious ideologies."  I always took it to mean that adding in other ideologies muddies the waters of "what is vegan?" for the newbies  (sort of like when people began to worry that high fructose corn syrup wasn't vegan because so many vegwebbers made a big deal of avoiding it).

Processed, refined sugar isn't necessary to people.  It's a luxury.  We can choose to consume sugar that doesn't involve animals in the processing because we have that option.  There's nothing wrong with exercising options.  Water isn't a luxury; it's necessary for life.  I imagine that a lot of plants use sand filters, but if they happen to use bone char, then we drink it.  Luxury versus necessity.

You make a good point about luxury items versus necessities, and I do think that luxury goods should be held to a higher level of scrutiny.  But vegans may disagree on the actual impact of consuming those luxury goods and even on which are luxuries and which are necessities.  I have seen at least one person on vegweb who was trying avoid products that contained "filtered water" because of the bone char issue.  I totally agree that there's nothing wrong with exercising your options.  I am certainly not asking anyone to change their own personal standards of conscience, but to recognize that some of them are personal standards and not litmus tests for wearing the label, "vegan."

My purpose wasn't really to sway anyone to this point of view, but to illustrate that we do draw the vegan line in different places.  I think that it's important to keep in mind that veganism is a means to an end, not an end unto itself.  To me, the question "Is it vegan?" is less pertinent than "Does it cause suffering?"

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