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How vegan are you?

I guess this question boils down to why are you vegan in the first place?  I was ovo-lacto until I found out my son is lactose intollerant so I switched us over to vegan diet with great results so far.  But I do believe that eating meat (not dairy!) is healthy occasionally, just not on a daily basis.  So I decided to take the stand for myself and my son that as long as I kill the animal myself (as in hunting and fishing) then it is okay to eat meat, and eggs are okay if I raise the chickens myself so I know they have a good life.  Of course, I don't have a fishing liscence nor a hunting liscence, nor do I own chickens, and I can't own chickens because of where  I live.  I am strick to not support the meat dairy or egg industry due to the horrible cruelty that goes on.  I am not going to give them my money, because by doing that I am in essence doing it myself!  But if I fish in a river and catch the fish, the fish had a good life, free, lived as a fish is supposed to live, and I kill it, then I will be sure to kill it as quickly and painlessly as possible, and I will be respectful of it and it's feelings. 

I think part of the reason I feel this way is because I love fishing, and I love to eat the fish I catch, it is one of my very pleasent child hood memories and I want to raise my son the same way, to be respectful of what you eat.

Does that  make me a horrible vegan?

Being vegan is about having respect for all life. Wanting to kill animals is not respectful of their lives.

And posting about it on a vegan forum is not respectful to anyone.

jesus... you guys are brutal.

killing animals is brutal, no matter how it's done.

couldn't agree more... but as brutal as posting about it in a vegan forum?  gimme a break.

It's important to realize that our imprisonment of animals and our apparent need to dominate them to feel superior begins with our thoughts and words. The actions cannot be done and cannot transpire without the thought first being realized in someone's head.  I think that's why this can be a touchy subject.

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Wait, not being judgemental, but you can gut a fish but cringe at hooking a worm?  Anyway, right, if you eat any animal products you are not a vegan, and if flesh is involved, not a vegetarian either.  Always welcome here though, of course!

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I think this thread is interesting, in that it ties into the 'is veganism a religion?' thread...

Consider:
If snowqueen started a thread saying, 'guys, I feel so bad, I was at my parent's house and they made fish, and I was really hungry and I ate some, and now I feel terrible about it...' I think the overwhelming response would be 'hey, don't beat yourself up; nobody's perfect; mistakes happen, just get back on track...'

But if she says 'I think it's ok to eat fish once or twice a year, under certain circumstances', the response is very different -- even if her actions are identical!

I'm not sure I would classify veganism as a religion so much as a philosophy; but it's easy to see how the question could arise. The construct is clearly dependent on intent/ ideas/ spirituality, rather than actions (or, rather than ONLY actions).

Seems like this thread is as much about linguistics as food ethics; humans tend to regard words as reality, when in fact they're only symbols -- which can easily be interpreted SO differently, by different people... to SQ, 'vegan' means 'eating no animal foods at all' -- at least for the moment -- even if the moral objection to such is not always there. To others, saying 'vegan' and still supporting any kind of animal use is unthinkable. To still others (i.e. omnis who don't read vegan lit!), it means eating shrimp and chicken, but no other meat! (eye roll)

I don't ID as vegan, mostly 'cause I'm ambivalent about pet-chicken eggs and local honey in the context of sustainable/ nonindustrial food production... but for those who do embrace the name: is this thread more about ethics or language? Is it more of an issue that someone eats (whatever), or that they claim veganism while doing it? Or are both equally troublesome? Who gets to define the label, if not the person labeling him/ herself? There are many folks within many communities who define the same term differently... feminists, democrats, Christians, whatever... isn't this sorta like someone saying, 'how dare you call yourself a Christian yet vote pro-choice (because MY interpretation of that label is different than yours)? Or, 'you can't be a Baptist if you support gay rights'?

Posting about killing animals on a veg*n site is clearly inappropriate... But I find the language and self-definition stuff in this thread very thought provoking.

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In the past snowqueen has asked our opinion on so many things......should she get an abortion, should she feed her baby meat, should she eat meat, should she have another baby, etc etc.....we can't help make those decisions for her.  If you decide to eat meat, that's ok, just don't ask us to agree with you.  This is a vegan site.

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There's a difference between unintentionally/unknowingly consuming something, and willingly/intentionally/knowingly doing so. Gosh, I just really want to eat some meat, and I couldn't help myself, so I eat meat...both fall in the latter.

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Snowqueen, it sounds like you are very fond of the memories you had as a child. They must have been very special to you because of your time bonding with family. Could you try to create some new traditions based on what you now believe? I too have known hunters who tell me why they hunt (to be with nature) and I wonder why they can't just do that without killing anything.

I too have so many fond memories of lakes as a child, but luckily my family never fished. My memories are of swimming, boating, playing on the beach, etc....Perhaps you can think up some really sweet new traditions for your own family.

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all of this reminds me of this:

"Five Reasons to Eat Meat:
1) It tastes good, 2) It makes you feel good, 3) It's a great American tradition, 4) It supports the nation's farmers, and 5) Your parents did it.

Oh, sorry ... those are five reasons to smoke cigarettes. "

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all of this reminds me of this:

"Five Reasons to Eat Meat:
1) It tastes good, 2) It makes you feel good, 3) It's a great American tradition, 4) It supports the nation's farmers, and 5) Your parents did it.

Oh, sorry ... those are five reasons to smoke cigarettes. "

That's awesome! Thanks: consider it shared with my inlaws.

;)b

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all of this reminds me of this:

"Five Reasons to Eat Meat:
1) It tastes good, 2) It makes you feel good, 3) It's a great American tradition, 4) It supports the nation's farmers, and 5) Your parents did it.

Oh, sorry ... those are five reasons to smoke cigarettes. "

mmmm... cigarettes... i like those too.  and whiskey.

thank god i'm not a vegan for health reasons.

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hcm: I think part of what struck a chord for me is 2-fold. First, my boyfriend used to hunt and has stopped since (well, even before) he became vegan. I've had these sort of conversations many times, and it usually comes down to loving the memory and the people you're with, not the animal you kill. I think this fact should be recognized.

Second, as the only vegan I know besides my boyfriend in the middle of NRA-USA, Fox New loving Podunk, Indiana, I struggle to represent myself and my beliefs. The majority of people I talk to think vegetarians/vegans eat chicken, fish, and hell, meat. Basically, they think I eat everything they do, but pick a fancy label. As vegans or people who know what veganism is, we owe it to ourselves to be honest with our titles, if we're going to put our selves and beliefs out there. The omnis are already confused--why should we be the ones to make it worse?

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all of this reminds me of this:

"Five Reasons to Eat Meat:
1) It tastes good, 2) It makes you feel good, 3) It's a great American tradition, 4) It supports the nation's farmers, and 5) Your parents did it.

Oh, sorry ... those are five reasons to smoke cigarettes. "

mmmm... cigarettes... i like those too.  and whiskey.

thank god i'm not a vegan for health reasons.

not really the point, but OK.

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all of this reminds me of this:

"Five Reasons to Eat Meat:
1) It tastes good, 2) It makes you feel good, 3) It's a great American tradition, 4) It supports the nation's farmers, and 5) Your parents did it.

Oh, sorry ... those are five reasons to smoke cigarettes. "

mmmm... cigarettes... i like those too.  and whiskey.

thank god i'm not a vegan for health reasons.

not really the point, but OK.

really??  your point wasn't to talk about how good cigarettes are??  i had no idea...

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all of this reminds me of this:

"Five Reasons to Eat Meat:
1) It tastes good, 2) It makes you feel good, 3) It's a great American tradition, 4) It supports the nation's farmers, and 5) Your parents did it.

Oh, sorry ... those are five reasons to smoke cigarettes. "

mmmm... cigarettes... i like those too.  and whiskey.

thank god i'm not a vegan for health reasons.

not really the point, but OK.

really??  your point wasn't to talk about how good cigarettes are??  i had no idea...

please so eat some Cheez its and stfu!

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nice melt.

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nice melt.

are you on the high school debate team?  you should be

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nice melt.

are you on the high school debate team?  you should be

lolzers... i know right?

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Wow, this thread got a lot more attention then I realized.

Do you know how many times I get this thing in my  head that lasts for like 2 hours then it is gone?  I think it happens to me worse then others.  That was what started this thread, one of those things. 

I got kind of beat up here, but you are right, I think I was more reminiscing about good times in the past.  I spent the weekend on a great hiking trip with my son, killed no animals...excpet for that bug that flew in my mouth and I accidentally swallowed it...that was gross and definately not intentional!  But after the hiking trip I don't feel like going out fishing, it was more about a desire to get out in the woods again I think. 

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to offend anyone.

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I like threads like these. As a baby vegan (<1 year), it helps me remember why I believe what I believe and how we can find new ways to create memories or celebrate without killing animals (such as meal-related holidays). I'm so glad you had a good weekend with your son!

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I like threads like these. As a baby vegan (<1 year), it helps me remember why I believe what I believe and how we can find new ways to create memories or celebrate without killing animals (such as meal-related holidays). I'm so glad you had a good weekend with your son!

word! newbie here too... SQ i'm glad you took sometime away with nature to think about it... glad you're back with us <3

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I am not vegan but this is great. A real eye opener.

Are you vegan? Or are you defending those who use animal bi-products in everyday life?

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