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Honey

Eating honey is not vegan.

Discuss.

I know this has been talked about many a time on VW, but I would like to be involved in the discussion. If you aren't interested in debating if/why/etc. eating honey is not/is vegan, then don't post!

Also, could I add that this thread is not for pointing the vegan-police finger at people.  Just a good old intellectual debate, yeah?

Well, I do not think honey is vegan.  Vegan = against the consumption of animals/their bodies/their secretions.  I have a hard time when people say, "Oh, well, honey is that one controversial thing that people can't decide whether or not it's vegan."  I disagree.  Honey is not vegan.  The controversial part is that it is so common for vegans to make an exception for honey.  I don't understand this.  Is it REALLY that hard to avoid honey?

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Also, could I add that this thread is not for pointing the vegan-police finger at people. 

Speak for yourself. http://www.clicksmilies.com/s1106/aktion/action-smiley-028.gif http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:vASDjFhzD5ZpbM:http://www.vegans.free-online.co.uk/veganpoliceT-shirt.GIF

Just kidding!!!

:) Yeah, I just want to hear the other side, and disagree.

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If you aren't interested in debating if/why/etc. eating honey is not/is vegan, then don't post!

are you saying that this thread must remain on topic?  ???

is that possible?

i never liked honey so i guess i never had to "deal" with giving it up. made it easy.

it isn't vegan b/c bees make it. bees are animals.

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are you saying that this thread must remain on topic?  ???

Not exactly..I'm just saying...I know this topic has been discussed before..so no need to discuss the fact that it's been discussed before!  ::)

(which I'm discussing right now...)

I guess I'll bring up another debatable fact: (that KMK touched on..) Why is it "more ok" to call oneself vegan and eat honey..than say..calling oneself vegan and eating...crawfish?

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Yeah, how did it come to happen that honey is the one "swing" vegan item? 

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I guess I'll bring up another debatable fact: (that KMK touched on..) Why is it "more ok" to call oneself vegan and eat honey..than say..calling oneself vegan and eating...crawfish?

Another comparison would by why people eat honey if they don't drink milk.  They're both secretions.

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I feel bad stealing their honey. It's like stealing a leprechaun's gold.

I'll pass on the stolen bee secretions, thanks. I always felt this way, way before I officially turned veg.

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The reason I've heard tell of why honey is the "swing" item is b/c of the "health benefits" of LOCAL honey, ie allergies and what not. When you have horrid seasonal allergies, you often have to choose, the natural way w/ honey, or the chemical way w/ meds.....although now the neti-pot has arrived the argument may become moot.

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I often wonder if people would eat "honey" if it came from ants or spiders. Some how, Bee's have been painted in the same light as dairy cows (in western culture).

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I often wonder if people would eat "honey" if it came from ants or spiders. Some how, Bee's have been painted in the same light as dairy cows (in western culture).

Yeah, that's pretty interesting to me too.  It's like, "Bees!  They're stripey and they buzz and they like flowers!  Weeee!"  But, like, ant vomit?  Totally not cute or cool, right?

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I guess I'll bring up another debatable fact: (that KMK touched on..) Why is it "more ok" to call oneself vegan and eat honey..than say..calling oneself vegan and eating...crawfish?

Another comparison would by why people eat honey if they don't drink milk.  They're both secretions.

For me I don't drink milk because of how horrible the cows/goats/whatever are treated in order to obtain their milk.... I don't really know that much about honey though. I would think (not that I think this) that honey is the vegan exception because a lot of people can not conceptualize mistreating an insect. I know I have a hard time conceptualizing it, although I'm not opposed to that belief. I guess everyone has a personal reason for being veg and so they make exceptions based on that.

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I don't really know that much about honey though.

You should look into it!  There is a lot of crap that goes into harvesting honey from bees.  And the effects don't just impact the bees themselves either.

AC, didn't you post some resources about this somewhere else?

I mean, even if we can get milk from a mammal without hurting it, how many people would call that vegan?  No way.  It's kind of a double standard.  It reminds me of when people try to exclude fish from the category of "animal."  Fish = animal, cow = animal, bee = animal.  See, again, it's the cute factor or something.

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I don't really know that much about honey though.

I mean, even if we can get milk from a mammal without hurting it, how many people would call that vegan?  No way.  It's kind of a double standard.  It reminds me of when people try to exclude fish from the category of "animal."  Fish = animal, cow = animal, bee = animal.  See, again, it's the cute factor or something.

How does the saying go....ignorance in bliss :P
Ya, I'll look into the honey thing and probably wont want to have that anymore either, not that it would be a bad thing....
I like agave nectar better anyway!

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Yeah, I mean, it's not like honey is the central part of anyone's diet.  And there are so many other options for sweeteners!  Who needs it?

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Honey is not vegan. I know that.

There's more than one side to this though. Honey production (when it's small scale, local, organic, etc.) is super environmentally friendly. So if a person's reason for eating a certain way is environmental, it would make sense to eat honey (if they liked the stuff). But they wouldn't be vegan.

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  Who needs it?

Yeah...................
???

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  Who needs it?

Yeah...................
???

SHoot, wrong pic. Ohs wells.

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Here's the site (pb..and everyone else): http://www.vegetus.org/honey/honey.htm

It's very informative. I recommend reading the whole thing!  ;)b

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Honey is not vegan. I know that.

There's more than one side to this though. Honey production (when it's small scale, local, organic, etc.) is super environmentally friendly. So if a person's reason for eating a certain way is environmental, it would make sense to eat honey (if they liked the stuff). But they wouldn't be vegan.

You could apply the same reasoning to eggs and milk...maybe....well you could if you were concerned with the environment and with animal welfare. Local, small farms that have like 2 chickens and 1 cow and use the milk and eggs will treating the animals like dear pets.... it all gets confusing to me. I mean where do you draw the line?

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A lot of vegans are what they are for moral reasons, i.e. cows are kept cooped up in cruel milk/meat factories. Bees, however, are not cows, and I think one would have difficulty arguing that insects of any kind are sentient at all. Bees are allowed to roam freely miles from their hives to feed on wildflowers and the harvesting of the honey does no harm to the actual bee itself. Honey also has certain special properties that nothing else has, such as soothing the throat and never spoiling, ever. I will admit, however, that I'm really biased in this: I eat peanut butter and honey toast most mornings for breakfast.

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