Honey
Posted by Allychristine on Jul 21, 2008 · Member since Dec 2007 · 15438 posts
Eating honey is not vegan.
Discuss.
I know this has been talked about many a time on VW, but I would like to be involved in the discussion. If you aren't interested in debating if/why/etc. eating honey is not/is vegan, then don't post!
i read up a little after I posted, and one good point that was made is that even if farmer's DID use bees for pollinating crops, they still wouldn't have to use them for their products and treat them the way that they do.
And there really is no nutritional use for honey. So we're basically raising them cuz we like honey....and I don't think that's right.
I'm sure if we released the bees into the wild they'd "be fruitful and multiply" and do fine on their own. They did fine before humans acquired a taste for honey, and there was never a problem with pollination before.
I think I've made up my mind.
kryttle i think u have some good points thanks for presenting a different view point... burt's bees uses honey in some of their products as well as yes to carrots... both cruelty free brands that don't use animal products (except for honey)...they say the bees r not mistreated... how do u guys feel about using those products?
they say the bees r not mistreated...
And happy cows come from California.
What's your method of closing a hive without smashing bees? I studied bees during college. We had an Apis mellifera hive on campus and bees were routinely smashed when the box was closed.
Burt's Bees is owned by Clorox. There's a credibility issue their about "mistreatment". What is their definition of mistreatment? Is it just face value or do they specifically define the term? They purchase bee products from bee keepers who are all competing against one another for contracts and are finding every way they can to keep costs down. What commitments do they have from the bee keepers? Is there an independent and unannounced hive inspection program? Again, what's their credibility other than a PR blurb? Not that it influences the vegan-ness of it.
Some of the comments to date have been about pesticides and how bad they are for bees. Bee keepers dope up the hives. There's a disconnect in concern.
I don't understand why people will work so hard to justify something just because they want it. Being vegan is about doing the least amount of harm. Justifying honey doesn't come close to limiting harm. It's just plain self-indulgence.
hh... good point... who really governs that people don't mistreat bees... it's just a claim... kinda like "natural ingredients" or "free range"... i don't know much about the treatment of bees so i guess i'll spend some time looking into it... i don't eat honey because it's never been something i liked or used so i can easily omit it from my diet... by the way hh where in socal r u? im in mission viejo
Yeah, I feel like saying pesticides/CCD threatens bees, so keeping colonies helps bees, is like saying "we totally polluted and messed up the ocean, so eating farmed fish saves the salmon!" I mean, maybe that saves them from the current situation, but why wouldn't they be able to survive in the wild? Maybe we should fix that.
Yeah, I feel like saying pesticides/CCD threatens bees, so keeping colonies helps bees, is like saying "we totally polluted and messed up the ocean, so eating farmed fish saves the salmon!" I mean, maybe that saves them from the current situation, but why wouldn't they be able to survive in the wild? Maybe we should fix that.
[/quote
Yep. Just what I was thinking but couldn't express it in print. Thanks FB!!!!
:o :o :o :o The horror!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o :o
How can anybody not like honey, sweet, golden, delicious nector of the Gods...er bees.
By the technical definition, honey is not vegan, with that I agree. But I think local honey from local farmers is okay (and tastes much better). That is ethically stolen from the bees with no harm to the bees. Don't want to harm the bees, they are VERY important to farmers, if it wasn't for them we wouldn't have crops and farmers know this, so they treat their bees very well.
("ethically stolen" is as it sounds, an oxymoran. We do steal from bees, they work so darn hard, but honey is so good, but l you feel really bad for the bees, until you bite into that piece of warm fresly baked bread smothered with butter and honey...ohhhh heaven.)
But large commercial honey is not good.
("ethically stolen" is as it sounds, an oxymoran. We do steal from bees, they work so darn hard, but honey is so good, but l you feel really bad for the bees, until you bite into that piece of warm fresly baked bread smothered with butter and honey...ohhhh heaven.)
I feel like I should be offended by this.......but like....I'm not a bee. So I just have a really confused feeling. I'm not sure what to say about doing something that you know is wrong simply for aesthetic pleasure. If you are having dissonance about it, I would encourage you to explore other sweeteners. The notion that you care and feel bad for them, but you'd rather choose the fleeting pleasure of eating honey just because it tastes good, is kind of disturbing to me.
I would also encourage you to research honey production a little more thoroughly. "Farmers need bees, so they must take care of them" is not a very well-informed notion.
agave nectar is an amazing option.
agave nectar, maple syrup, brown rice syrup, fruit jams/syrups..............lots of options!
I actually like agave better than honey. Honey is too sweet for me. I've never tried brown rice syrup, I will try that soon.
I'm not sure where I stand on the bee/honey debate right now, but I'm a huge fan of agave nector. I've used it in recipes that have called for honey, drizzle it on oatmeal, used it in plain soy yogurt to sweeten it up and love it!
I think the discussion here is interesting and is exactly the type of thing I want to include in a massive update & revision of the Why Honey is Not Vegan site at Vegetus.org. If you want to support this update, please click the image below to learn more about this project. Thanks!
I keep getting asked if I'm "one of those WEIRD vegans who doesn't eat honey"
That bothers me. Because IMO and from my research,
vegan= plant based diet+lifestyle
Bees= not plants
thus: honey (non-plant by product)= not vegan. I mean, I can't see the difference between using honey and trying to say it's vegan, and using silk and trying to say it's vegan. Both are insect by products, yet I have not yet heard of a debate that argues silk being vegan.
vegan= plant based diet+lifestyle
Bees= not plants
thus: honey (non-plant by product)= not vegan. I mean, I can't see the difference between using honey and trying to say it's vegan, and using silk and trying to say it's vegan. Both are insect by products, yet I have not yet heard of a debate that argues silk being vegan.
Exactly. They are both products from animals.
I keep getting asked if I'm "one of those WEIRD vegans who doesn't eat honey"
And here we have one of the reasons it took so bloody long to finally make up my mind and stop eating honey.
Both are insect by products, yet I have not yet heard of a debate that argues silk being vegan.
I think it's a little easier to try and justify honey because while silk is obviously and necessarily produced by killing the silkworms, honey production does not directly involve dropping bees into hot water. Same reason some people are ethically okay with milk but not meat - though from a vegan pov, neither is great.
I don't think Honey is vegan.
In Tasmania, at the forest blockade people would always drop off honey.
There are a group of people who relocate bees from coupes that are to be logged, and then donate the honey to the blockade.
I don't really have a moral objection to that, because the bees can't go back to the hive and it's just gonna get felled/napalmed come logging season.
Here was my reason (when I ate honey) to support vegans eating honey...
http://www.npr.org/search/index.php?searchinput=honey+bee+decline
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4707990
Here is a list of some things bees are largely responsible for providing you...
FORAGE AND LEGUME:
*
Alfalfa
*
Buckwheat Clover (numerous varieties)
*
Sweet clover (numerous varieties)
*
Lespedeza (bush)
*
Trefoil
*
Vetches
FRUIT CROPS:
* Apple
* Apricot
* Avocado
* Berry (blackberry, blueberry, cranberry, gooseberry, huckleberry, raspberry, strawberry)
* Carambolo
* Cherry
* Citron
* Citrus (grapefruit, lemon, mandarin, nectarine, pummelo, tangelo, tangerine)
* Currants
* Dewberry
* Jujube
* Kiwi
* Litchi
* Mango
* Muskmelons (cantaloupe, casaba, crenshaw, honeyball, honeydew, persian melon)
* Passion Fruit
* Peach
* Pears
* Persimmon
* Plum
* Prune
* Watermelon
VEGETABLE CROPS:
* Artichoke
* Chinese cabbage
* Pimenta
* Asparagus
* Dill
* Pumpkin
* Broccoli
* Eggplant
* Radish
* Brussel sprouts
* Garlic
* Rutabaga
* Cabbage
* Kale
* Sapote
* Carrots
* Kolhrabi
* Squash
* Cauliflower
* Leek
* Turnip
* Celeriac
* Mustard
* Celery
* Onion
* Chayote
* Parsley
* Chicory
* Pepper
* Lima beans
* Collards
* Cucumber
NUT CROPS:
* Almond
* Coconut
* Cacao
* Coffee
* Cashew
* Kola nut
* Chestnut
* Macademia
OILSEED CROPS:
* Cotton
* Rape
* Safflower
* Soybeans
* Sunflower
* Tung
HERBS/SPICES:
* Annise
* Allspice
* Chives
* Cinnamon
* Coriander
* Fennel
* Lavender
* Mint
* Mustard
* Nutmeg
* Oregano
OTHER:
* Berseem
* Cicer milkvetch
* Cut flower seeds
* Longan
* Lotus
* Niger
* Quinine
* Sainfoin
When they were in decline, i found it extremely difficult to bitch about honey consumption. The more the merrier was an understatement.
I don't eat it now though, but I would never treat someone like less of a vegan for supporting an" industry" that is so so important to my being a vegan.
But we don't have to collect honey in order for this pollination to occur. It's like saying that, since methane gas holds promise for being clean-burning energy, we should support the meat industry, since cows are such a potent source of methane.
I totally agree. ;)b
I don't eat honey, but I don't disagree with beekeepers in the same way I disagree with dairy farming. The justification for eating honey was a lot easier to make when the bee shortage was taking place. This was kind of a dire situation, if anyone remembers.
I don't really feel all that passionate about it either way. My personal decision to refrain from honey really comes down to the fact that it is, like it or not, an animal product. However, I would not chastise someone for arguing another opinion on it.
Being a vegan entails a lot of social responsibility, not just through diet, but through concern and awareness of so many other things around you. A well-informed person with a POSITIVE motive for doing something is hardly something I am capable of outwardly criticizing.
Pages