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GENERAL OPINIONS ON PETA???

I'm very curious. Personally, I think that they make the veg community look bad.

To me, an animal rights activist throwing paint on a coat is akin to a gay rights activist throwing paint on someone's wedding dress.  Just.....not OK.  Not effective.

I like this comparison too, even though I would thoroughly enjoy seeing someone in a fur coat get doused with red paint....but I'm not a very nice person...

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I guess this just isn't what I have observed.  People shut down or turn away when they're made angry or made to feel like bad people.  They're not going to go home and reflect upon it in great depth, in all likelihood.  Again, just my experience with other people's reactions.

I don't think simple awareness is a valid goal anymore.  That might have been the case when the movement first emerged.  Now, most people are familiar that veg*nism and animal rights exist.  We are beyond the stage where we need to shout at people to tell them that we exist.  We are at the stage where we need to make a good impression.  Again, I think associating veg*nism with anger, hate, aggression, and rigidity is just bad all around and becomes the take-home thought.

To me, an animal rights activist throwing paint on a coat is akin to a gay rights activist throwing paint on someone's wedding dress.  Just.....not OK.  Not effective.

I guess what I gather from this is that a whole ton of more research needs to be done on this type of marketing.  It doesn't seem like PETA does much.

I think that we are all forgetting that we are not PETA's target. We are the choir. And when we surround ourselves with vegan friends and vegan opinions (so easy to do in this on-line age), we forget how "fringe" we really are.

Try an experiment: Keep a journal of pro-animal product eating. Food commercials (radio, television, on-line and print), it's appearance on cooking shows, on regular tv shows on reality tv shows... as part of co-workers conversations, friends and family's conversations.

I guarantee your head will spin. Now think how many times a year the mass media reports on a positive vegan story.

I cannot think of one. We know they're out there, but to Bob and Brenda average, it never gets to them.

But I bet they have an opinion on PETA. And a discussion about the idea of animal rights can begin there. Say what you will about PETA, but they do manage to pierce the white noise to represent our "extreme" point of view. Until someone can figure out how to turn the volume on "nice" up to 11, then I will be glad there is PETA.

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Exactly! They have a pretty decent message, one that I agree with on quite a few points, but their way of going about doing things makes me sick to my stomach. I have a friend who told me that PETA members once showed up to a festival she was doing and let all the farm animals into the wild. Farm Animals? In The Wild? Where they'll almost certianly get eaten or starve to death. How ethical of them. The make all vegans look like fanatical idiots. Of course, the crazies in every group have a tendency to do that.

Word. They are totally out of touch and live in a world where whatever they do is "ethical treatment" of animals. Here in Europe they mostly put up posters, and release animals into a hostile environment. I always wonder where all that donated money actually goes.

But see, we complain when people assume that PETA represents the animal rights movement as a whole and vegans as a whole, while they do not. But many people assume that PETA members = PETA. Things that qualify one as a PETA member:
donating at least $16 a year to PETA
holding a sign/wearing clothing with a PETA logo on it
and often, just being an animal rights advocate
an activist is not tantamount to PETA's position/s just as PETA is not the same as the ALF. PETA does not release domesticated animals in the wild (nor does the ALF, though one cell had that screw up with minks one time...). Stupid people do. (standing for animal rights or not)
I haven't always agreed with what PETA does, and I think it sucks that an animal rights organization spends a lot of its time on animal welfare issues (praising fast food joints after they adopt better welfare standards... what happened to the successful campaign to get a veggie burger at Burger King? Why not do that for all the fast food chains instead?). But, even if some of their stances are "extreme," it's the extremists that shift the middle ground their direction. i.e., when we hear about PETA throwing "blood" on fur-wearing models, people adopt a position more radical than before (wearing fur is ignorant and fur is cruel), but while still decrying the vandalism/assault. Or in regard to the ALF, people might decide they're ok with animal liberation, but not arson.

with reguards to ALF, if someone was to break slaves out of a campw here they were inprisoned, would that be the same but with animals?
Do ALF have in their message "all means necessary" e.g. harming humans, or do they just advocate the release of animals from farms etc. and the possible burning of the farms to help prevent, if even for a little while, the use of the farm for enslaving animals?

Part of the ALF's rules/philosophy/whatever is to harm no one (human/nonhuman). Some people are ok with taking the animals away from labs, but not with vandalism/destruction of property. I personally have a problem with the arson, since you can't control a fire once you leave the site, and there may be animals (birds/mice/whatnot) that live in the building that burns down.

KMK, I know we know the difference, but someone here (I forget who) had said something about "PETA members" and attributing that action to PETA. It's not the same thing - people who work for PETA, acting for PETA is different than people who donate annually or carry a sign with their logo. I think some animal rights activists get this mixed up too, and that's where these rumors of PETA freeing animals/etc come from.

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Ohhhh, ok, I see what you are referring to about PETA member actions vs. official PETA-sponsored campaigns.  Yeah, that's definitely true, and unfortunately the acts of loony peta members get garbled up in everything else.

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To me, an animal rights activist throwing paint on a coat is akin to a gay rights activist throwing paint on someone's wedding dress.  Just.....not OK.  Not effective.

Off topic and way late, but since people like this analogy I suppose I'll be the buzz kill:  An animal rights activist would inherently be opposed to killing and skinning animals for fashion.  Gay rights activists aren't inherently opposed to marriage.  In California, the GLBTQ community is waging a damned hard fight to legally marry.  Although I agree that throwing paint on a wedding dress would indeed not be effective for any statement.  Did that happen?

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I know that not all gay people are either opposed to marriage or wanting the right to marriage.  We could be more specific and say "advocates for gay marriage."   The analogy still stands.

I don't know of any paint-wedding-dress incidents, but I'm just saying, suppose you were really angry that heterosexuals could marry (and gays couldn't), and you wanted to protest that, you wouldn't go destroy someone's wedding.  If you were angry that people used fur for coats, you shouldn't destroy someone's coat.  Even if it does repulse or upset you.  Not effective and not going to win over all the people you piss off.

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I have heard of throwing paint on models going down a runway, but not random people on the street. When I went to some anti-fur protests, we had a "fur" coat with "blood" on it, but it was a prop.

As a side note, I feel like I can say "PETA" and it gets people riled up. Just like when I tell people I'm vegan/animal rights activist, invariably someone says "well, I'm glad your not one of those blankety-blank blank people who blankety-blank"(e.g., extremists opposed to zoos, or vegetarians who think their diet is morally superior, etc)... and then I think to myself... BUT I AM.

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I have heard of throwing paint on models going down a runway, but not random people on the street. When I went to some anti-fur protests, we had a "fur" coat with "blood" on it, but it was a prop.

We've had cases of it here in Europe; in France on the street, here in Spain in airports. Someone comes up behind the fur-wearer, drops paint on the coat (from a baggie or similar) and then yells, "Oh! You're bleeding!" And then of course, particularly in the airport, the wearer is stuck with a garment dripping wet paint in a public place, when they're about to get a flight...It really doesn't make much of a point, in reality. It just turns people against whatever group is doing it.

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Have you seen the latest PETA billboard in Jacksonville, FL?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/17/petas-new-save-the-whales_n_261134.html

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Have you seen the latest PETA billboard in Jacksonville, FL?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/17/petas-new-save-the-whales_n_261134.html

my opinion is - that is disgusting.  At the bottom of the article you can vote what you think of the ad, i voted that i find it horrendous and for me, it takes away from whatever message they're trying to send.  Turns out 44% of the people who took that poll voted the same way.  Sounds like a very big majority are turning away from their message.  If that's the case - i think this ad is a failure!

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"Save The Whales, Lose The Blubber: Go Vegetarian."

I'm vegan and have blubber.  ??? 

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Yeah, I have blubber - I may have even gained weight since become vegan - but I eat constantly.

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PETA-There to remind you your health doesn't matter.

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"Save The Whales, Lose The Blubber: Go Vegetarian."

I'm vegan and have blubber.  ??? 

Me too, sister. 

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Well, they're playing into what most people think vegans are - skinny.

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PETA-There to remind you your health doesn't matter.

Let alone your dignity.

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When people say, "Well, at least it gets people to think animal rights," what do you all mean?  Like, think about it in what way?  Think about the fact that it exists?  And do you feel like scare/shock tactics which pummel and disrespect their audience are the only way to spark that thought?

I'm just not convinced that the same effect (and a much greater effect, at that) couldn't be had via more positive, respectful methods aimed at the appropriate audiences.

Because when something makes you angry, you often are forced to examine why you feel that way. A good portion of meat eaters get angry when confronted by PETA ads, and if you ask them "Why", they won't know... they'll have to examine their anger, and their reasons for it. On a subconcious level, it works. PEople are at least considering the arguement, if only to solidify their arguement against it.

Yes, positive is nice... but it often gets dismissed as such: "Positive" becomes "Nice" leads to "hippy dippy" to "ha ha" to dismissal, and zero reflection.

Eating meat is so engrained into our society (and such a huge, profitable industry) that one needs to be loud and aggressive to even be heard on the subject.

Again, I give PETA credit for making the voice of animal rights at least heard. For every laughable stunt about animal rights we dismiss as horrible, there are 100,000+ McDonalds ads... So we need something, right?

Thus goes my opinion, anyways.

I completely disagree, fundamentally especially. When I have come across anyone with a loud agressive voice for veganism all I've seen happen is the people who aren't a vegan (or vegetarian, from back whgen I was one of them) become alienated fmro that person.

However I find a positive attitude does help. If you invite someone into your life, you can become friends with them. They may dismiss your arguments they may not, but so far what's happened with me is I've shown support to people, saying "that's interesting, have you thought about doing this to your diet". Given advice to meat eaters about sources of iron, protein, and even calcium (all of course being vegan sources, and I've stated that of course I might be alittle bias). By doing this I've been able to offer, instead of force, my reasoning for being a vegan. To which I just put a link up to a blog post of someones which ius just a 3.5K essay on my reasoning of why I became a vegan. It's not there to shock, it's not there to pursuade. All it does is go into very limited detail about personhood, pain and suffering, health, a bit of buddhist tradition to help them see another line of thought, a little bit of humans aren't special.
I then make it abundently clear that not only is criticism of both any English mistakes and content mistakes is more than welcome, and that I honestly do look forward to any refutale of something I've said that they may have. Which is true, who doesn't love a good well mannered debate?

All it is for me is support and logic. It's not shock tactics, it's critical thinking, this is key.

Furthermore I'll point out that I'm not responcible to them, I may judge them for eating meat, but only in the same way that I'll judge someone for having a slave. And that they're not my responcibility either, so why give them much authority?

When I talk to a meat eater (that doesn't know me) about being vegan, at first I'll often be told, rather agressively, that peta is a shit organisation which they're quick to dismis. That peta is out of touch. And I will more than happily agree with them. This alone will strike a new chord in them. "a vegan, who doesn't like peta?" and I will reply "yes, I disagree with peta, here is why" to which they will gasp.
I may often put up a short verse from my own book (metaphorical book, I'm no author) "animals appear to be able to feel pain, I don't see why I should randomly be assigned the ownership of their life, we are animals, and so when I say I'm into animal rights, that by default also means human rights". Now the are usually two roads after that:
"but it's tasty"-I can put more arguments up (not as in getting into an argument, but putting up my reasoning)
"you're weird"-they don't want to talk about it any more.
However when it comes to health if the latter need or want some diet advice, I can usually offer some. Which goes back to what I said at the start, for me it's about supporting people.

Let me give you an anolgy to demonstrate this in a different way.
I believe veganism is correct.
I also believe that those who are not vegan just don't understand.
Therefore I shall try to help them understand.

And what might a stereotypical born again christian say:
I believe the bible is correct.
I also believe that those who are not christian just don't understand.
Therefore I shall try to help them understand.

How many of us have been approached by someone claiming that the bible is truth and one of us should follow the bible?
That's never made me want to learn about the bible, at least personally.

On the other hand I have wanted to learn about it due to being brought up as a Christian (I'm an athiest now, I think most of you realised this) and as a result, I've wanted to see if it holds truth or not (it doesn't hold too many things that I can agree with in the literal sense).

On the other hand I've been told by Muslims (although admittedly plenty haven't been telling me that I'm going against God) that I'm going against God and should stop being evil.
In the same way the above Christian might talk to me.
And my reaction, "piss off".

So when I go to someone and say, "you're not vegan? don't you know x y and z, don't you understand, you should be vegan" (which is how I came accross when I was a preachy vegan) I'm not suprised in hindsight to see I've been told to piss off.
This was longder than I expected it to be>_<.

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For that reason, I like Vegan Outreach.

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asleep on a sunbeam and KissMeKate,

When I said,

Quote:
"Because when something makes you angry, you often are forced to examine why you feel that way."

I did not mean that it was an instant thing. When we feel intense emotion, subconciously, we have to sort it out. It took years of thought, reading and yes, confrontation for me to get where I am today. I used to laugh at PETA, taunt vegetarians, and think that vegans were just plain crazy.

But somewhere inside, these thoughts were sorting themselves out. Seeds were planted. Not by the friendly vegetarians who were of the on again/off again variety, but by the extreme views of folks like Earth Crisis, Propagandhi... and PETA. Who I even made fun of on the airwaves back in my radio days.

I'm not saying that PETA is good for one on one conversation and conversion on the subject. What they do, is cut through the noise. Make people take notice of something they otherwise would not take notice of.

If I may be so lazy as to repost my earlier thoughts with a thought or two added:

I think that we are all forgetting that we are not PETA's target. We are the choir. And when we surround ourselves with vegan friends and vegan opinions (so easy to do in this on-line age), we forget how "fringe" we really are.

Try an experiment: Keep a journal of pro-animal product eating. Food commercials (radio, television, on-line and print), it's appearance on cooking shows, on regular tv shows on reality tv shows... as part of co-workers conversations, friends and family's conversations.

And not just food, but leather, fur, cosmetics... look at how often they are promoted as positive and consequense free.

I guarantee your head will spin. Now think how many times a year the mass media reports on a positive vegan story. Or reports on the inherent cruelty in these industries.

I cannot think of one. We know they're out there, but to Bob and Brenda average, it never gets to them.

But I bet they have an opinion on PETA. And a discussion about the idea of animal rights can begin there. Say what you will about PETA, but they do manage to pierce the white noise to represent our "extreme" point of view. Until someone can figure out how to turn the volume on "nice" up to 11, then I will be glad there is PETA.

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asleep on a sunbeam and KissMeKate,

When I said,

Quote:
"Because when something makes you angry, you often are forced to examine why you feel that way."

I did not mean that it was an instant thing. When we feel intense emotion, subconciously, we have to sort it out. It took years of thought, reading and yes, confrontation for me to get where I am today. I used to laugh at PETA, taunt vegetarians, and think that vegans were just plain crazy.

But somewhere inside, these thoughts were sorting themselves out. Seeds were planted. Not by the friendly vegetarians who were of the on again/off again variety, but by the extreme views of folks like Earth Crisis, Propagandhi... and PETA. Who I even made fun of on the airwaves back in my radio days.

I'm not saying that PETA is good for one on one conversation and conversion on the subject. What they do, is cut through the noise. Make people take notice of something they otherwise would not take notice of.

If I may be so lazy as to repost my earlier thoughts with a thought or two added:

I think that we are all forgetting that we are not PETA's target. We are the choir. And when we surround ourselves with vegan friends and vegan opinions (so easy to do in this on-line age), we forget how "fringe" we really are.

Try an experiment: Keep a journal of pro-animal product eating. Food commercials (radio, television, on-line and print), it's appearance on cooking shows, on regular tv shows on reality tv shows... as part of co-workers conversations, friends and family's conversations.

And not just food, but leather, fur, cosmetics... look at how often they are promoted as positive and consequense free.

I guarantee your head will spin. Now think how many times a year the mass media reports on a positive vegan story. Or reports on the inherent cruelty in these industries.

I cannot think of one. We know they're out there, but to Bob and Brenda average, it never gets to them.

But I bet they have an opinion on PETA. And a discussion about the idea of animal rights can begin there. Say what you will about PETA, but they do manage to pierce the white noise to represent our "extreme" point of view. Until someone can figure out how to turn the volume on "nice" up to 11, then I will be glad there is PETA.

Perhaps in the long run they do, or don't, do some good for AR. But when I don't often get told I'm a moron after a debate when I talk to someone about veganism. More often than not I've had meat eaters agree with me. And some people have even because agreeing with me, when calmly explaining things to them, and them listening to what I have to say on the matter, and me listening to what they have to say, have even turned vegetarian and have thought about veganism.

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