Thanks for moving this.

I'm torn on the idea. Milk, no way would I drink it. A cow's milk is for baby cows, period. If you have a pet dog & the dog has a litter of puppies, would you take the puppies away & milk the dog for yourself? There's nothing different between milking a cow and any other animal. I think drinking cow's milk is very unatural and unhealthy for us humans.

I don't feel as strongly about eggs though. I think alot of animals steal the eggs of others and eat them and that they do provide some nourishment. I don't eat eggs now because of how horribly the chickens are raised & I don't want to consume the drugs that they treat the chickens with and are then passed along into the egg. And we don't NEED the eggs. I've gone over a year without them. So if I had a friend with well kept pet chickens who wanted to give me eggs, I think I'd take them and feed them to my dogs, or else donate them to the wildlife shelter where I volunteer to give to the animals there that need the eggs more than I do.

My argument for not eating eggs:  they would eventually hatch into baby chicks. in addition, i can't imagine taking the egg from a mother hen....

The eggs people eat aren't fertilized and would never become chicks.  Hens will lay eggs whether or not there's a rooster there to fertilize the egg so it becomes a chick egg.

Agreed.  An unfertilized egg would never become a chick.  Just like the egg women ovulate every month never becomes a human.  If it is wrong to eat an egg on the basis that it prevents a chick from being born, it is also wrong to let an unfertilized egg pass every month during your period.  It is exactly the same thing.

My issue with eggs is that you cannot farm them without exploiting a chicken.  You inevitably have to implement a system in which the hen's value is based on her ability to produce eggs.  You are using the hens for your own purposes.  I agree with baypuppy, doesn't matter if they're from your backyard or a factory.  It is exploitative of another species, no matter which way you slice it.  I am fundamentally opposed either way.

Regarding milk, I agree that it is not natural, but my reasons for not drinking milk are deeper than that.  There is only one being who is supposed to drink that milk--the baby calf.  My reasons for not drinking milk are basically the same as those for not eating eggs.  Cows don't produce milk so that humans can drink it.  They produce it for their own purposes.  And to grant ourselves permission to take these things is to assume dominion over other species.  I think this is wrong.

I don't really buy into the "well, the chickens/cows had a happy life" reasoning.  I agree with bp that there is a continuum--less cruel choices, etc.--but suppose that we did the same thing with other human beings!  Suppose I took a group of children and spoiled them rotten by treating them like royalty, but made them all do work to further some goal of mine.  It doesn't matter how well I treat them, I am still exploiting them.  They do not have to right to self determination of their own lives.  Same when chickens are raised--humanely or not.

eggs won't hatch into chicks unless they're fertilized, right?  are all eggs that chickens lay fertilized? 

my mom buys eggs from a local person in our county.  and she one day plans to raise her own chickens and eat their eggs.  i'm not totally sure how i feel about it...  and she always says to me that she couldn't go vegan, just because of eggs.  which is totally gross because i think eggs are most likely almost the grossest thing on the planet.  (i've never liked them.)

but if there is no rooster present, they will still lay eggs.  and if they're not fertilized, they won't hatch.  so, yeah, it seems icky to me, but are you really killing any would-be chickens?  i'm not promoting this idea, really, but if it makes my mom feel better about supporting her egg habit, i guess it would be ok with me (for her).  you wouldn't catch me dead going anywhere near an egg.

also, about my mom, she wants to raise chickens as....  her little buddies.  their value wouldn't be based on whether or not they produced eggs.  i know for a fact that if for some reason she got a chicken that didn't lay, she would keep it and love it anyway.  (and never eat it, of course!)  my mom's weird.  i think chickens are pretty horrendous.  they make scary noises and remind me of tiny dinosaurs.  they kinda scare me.

eggs won't hatch into chicks unless they're fertilized, right?  are all eggs that chickens lay fertilized? 

No.  All eggs that chickens lay are not fertilized.  Chickens pass unfertilized eggs just like we do.  They are fertilized if there is a rooster to fertilize them.

My issue with eggs is that you cannot farm them without exploiting a chicken.  You inevitably have to implement a system in which the hen's value is based on her ability to produce eggs.  You are using the hens for your own purposes.  I agree with baypuppy, doesn't matter if they're from your backyard or a factory.  It is exploitative of another species, no matter which way you slice it.  I am fundamentally opposed either way.

Regarding milk, I agree that it is not natural, but my reasons for not drinking milk are deeper than that.  There is only one being who is supposed to drink that milk--the baby calf.  My reasons for not drinking milk are basically the same as those for not eating eggs.  Cows don't produce milk so that humans can drink it.  They produce it for their own purposes.  And to grant ourselves permission to take these things is to assume dominion over other species.  I think this is wrong.

I don't really buy into the "well, the chickens/cows had a happy life" reasoning.  I agree with bp that there is a continuum--less cruel choices, etc.--but suppose that we did the same thing with other human beings!  Suppose I took a group of children and spoiled them rotten by treating them like royalty, but made them all do work to further some goal of mine.  It doesn't matter how well I treat them, I am still exploiting them.  They do not have to right to self determination of their own lives.  Same when chickens are raised--humanely or not.

kmk beat me to it.

are you not farming other fruits and vegetables without exploiting the plant?  does a farmer not implement a system where the corn or soybean plant's value is based on its ability to produce?  i have a garden, and i care and nourish it, but because it will continue to produce yummy fruits and veggies for me.  in theory, is this not a similar practice?

Depends on how you define "exploit".  I think with human intelligence we've been able to manipulate nature and grow plants and farm plants for our eating necessities, rather than hunt and gather.  With 6 billion people, this now makes sense to do rather than just gather what nature gives us, why not use our inteligence.  

I don't think we are "exploiting" plants.  Plants don't have a nervous system to feel pain and exploitation.  They can't feel the difference between being manipulated to grow in a farm and naturally in the wild.  So in my opinion it's not a similar practice.

thanks to everyone who has taken the time to write.  it has been interesting to learn about all the perspectives we take while on the path to self-enlightenment. 

i agree that it is exploitation of the plants and land (foraging as the exception), BUT since it is almost impossible in todays society to forage anywhere, i lessen my exploitation by taking advantage of the fact that it is more sustainable to eat only plants.

but i do also think that plants and animals are different in terms of feelings, etc. i don't feel bad about uprooting a plant. anyway, if i didn't do it because for some reason i did feel bad about the killing of it, i would die and be taking life anyway, so yeah.

I really like and respect KMK's view on this subject,  Ive never really put that much thought into it, I guess.  For myself it is a personal choice.  Ive had chickens for years, becouse for some insane reason I could never eat store bought eggs, they make me sick.  I have them becouse we always have chicks in the spring,(we buy them from my cousin, who incubates his own eggs) we watch them grow, my children take care of them and love them, Im supposed to always get female chicks but once in a while I get a rooster and this year I have THREE, I have found homes for two of them and am working on the third, becouse I don't want my eggs fertilized.  As stated in previous posts chickens lay eggs with or without the rooster, the eggs would just sit there and rot if not taken.  We eat them, this is our choice.  My chickens eat our compost , till up the gardens and act as little recyclers around the yard-I find them smart and itelligent creatures that happen to also be able to lay eggs we can enjoy.  If a hen happens to want to sit on some eggs I let her until she gets over it and then throw them away, but rarely does this happen without the rooster.  They come when we call and they all have names we love them and they are part of our family so to speak, so I personally don't think they are exploited in any way and I don't sell the eggs so I don't believe I am supporting the egg laying industry.  I again think this is a personal choice.  This just happens to be my view and how we live.  They do stop laying when the days get shorter and winter comes-then its all Tofu scrambles-I do not buy eggs in the store, nor do I eat products with eggs in them.  But I get the whole debate thing, like if I had a cow would I drink the milk? No this is different the milk is available becouse of a birth of a calf and this would involve taking the calf away and then stealing its food.  I don't feel like Im stealing from the chickens, they abandon the eggs anyway, in my opinion it's different and it's not like I even keep the chickens captive they have a big hen house my husband built for them they return to every night.  Of course since I have chickens, I would support the eating of eggs, but I respect and understand this is not for everyone.