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Dumb Question

Dumb question:  Since becoming vegan tends to cause weight loss, why doesn't the pro-vegan portion of our population concentrate their efforts on the people like those in the following documentary?  It is a potential multi-billion dollar market, for you business  types out there, if you can do such in a nutritionally sound and complete manner (please see my posts regarding lysine and other nutrients missing from most vegan diets).

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=1673240771

I know I lost 1/3 of my body weight within three months each time I went vegan (probably because vegan diets tend to be so low in fat).  If this was to be applied to people like those in the documentary, we might save American from collapsing under its own weight, so to speak.

"We used to play for silver, now we play for life"
-- Jack Straw (as in Straw Man Specifications), Grateful Dead

For me, if you try to guilt me into eating healthier, my emotional eating can kick in and I will do worse.  I know this from repeated experience.  Obesity is much more complicated in "real life" than simply adjusting the calorie/activity ratio.

Yup

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Amy, being obese has nothing to do with the level of nutritional education people have.  

i seriously did not try to say anything of that sort, honestly! i used to be much heavier and have struggled with emotional eating my whole life... and i am skinny and i know how to eat healthy and i eat vegan but i wouldn't consider myself healthy (obviously)

For me, if you try to guilt me into eating healthier, my emotional eating can kick in and I will do worse.  I know this from repeated experience.  Obesity is much more complicated in "real life" than simply adjusting the calorie/activity ratio.

this is exactly what i AM trying to say... guilt tripping someone into being vegan is gonna backfire and it's a hurtful approach in my opinion... just look at Tweety "the glowing god" and it is quite obvious what being a healthy vegan can do for you...

nsfdri:

what is THE PERFECT DIET with ABSOLUTELY NO FLAWS? i need to know so i don't die...

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Figure it out for yourself.  I've provided the necessary tool and reference material, along with informing you where some of the problem areas lie and how to potentially overcome them.  Do you want me to wipe your ass too?

Crap. For a minute I though we were having a discussion.  You honestly think with your attitude people are going to care about your "necessary tool and reference material"???

This is why I stick to the Cookbook forums.  Vegans annoy me but I love the food.

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me and mr anonymous talked a little off the boards...

but ya i was pointed where to look (this quinn thing) but i figure, if he knows this no flawed diet and has the answers on what this perfect diet is, he could spread the wealth...

i just think this quest for the perfect diet is nonsense, almost sorta like an ED imho... it's a bit obsessive... ya as a vegan i pop a b12 and maybe a few other supplements and i feel much better than i have ever felt before, so i will go off that :)

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He who trains his tongue to quote the learned sages, will be known far and wide as a smart ass.
-- Howard Kandel

This forum is more fun with ideas and actual debate; there are plenty of other sites that celebrate quotations.

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love ya too baby boy <3

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on the other hand: orthorexia

tweety: i think it's the combination of internet + opinions that make everything annoying

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Ah, yes. Orthorexia is not really a problem, since you might wind up with a healthy body, even if it's mentally unhealthy.

...

What makes orthorexia more like OCD, and other eating disorders more like bipolarity? Other than making one sound more awesome than the others.

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Compulsive overeating that leads to obesity is definitely an "eating disorder".  Obesity caused by the standard American diet of high calorie foods, processed foods, and large portions is not necessarily an eating disorder.

“Arrogance diminishes wisdom”
Arabian Proverb  

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Amy, being obese has nothing to do with the level of nutritional education people have.  

i seriously did not try to say anything of that sort, honestly! i used to be much heavier and have struggled with emotional eating my whole life... and i am skinny and i know how to eat healthy and i eat vegan but i wouldn't consider myself healthy (obviously)

For me, if you try to guilt me into eating healthier, my emotional eating can kick in and I will do worse.  I know this from repeated experience.  Obesity is much more complicated in "real life" than simply adjusting the calorie/activity ratio.

this is exactly what i AM trying to say... guilt tripping someone into being vegan is gonna backfire and it's a hurtful approach in my opinion... just look at Tweety "the glowing god" and it is quite obvious what being a healthy vegan can do for you...

nsfdri:

what is THE PERFECT DIET with ABSOLUTELY NO FLAWS? i need to know so i don't die...

For your reference, here is a near perfect (from a soundness perspective) vegan diet for a 30-50 year old low activity male weighing 135 pounds and standing 5'8".  I developed it in about two hours time using quinn.

Supplements
-----------
2.4+ ug Vitamin B12
23-1722 mg Calcium
10-100 ug Vitamin D
1 teaspoon Flaxseed Oil

Breakfast
---------
1/2 cup Oats (Oatmeal)
1/2 cup Almonds
1/2 ounce Sunflower Seeds
1 GNC Soy Protein 95 Shake (made with water)

Lunch
-----
2 Carrots
4 ounce Russet Potato
1/4 cup Chickpeas
1 cup Tomatoes
5 teaspoons Vegetable Oil
Spices to taste
1 1/2 GNC Soy Protein 95 Shakes (made with water)

Dinner
------
1 cup Elbow Macaroni Pasta
1 1/8 cups Tomatoes
Spices to taste
1 GNC Soy Protein 95 Shake (made with water)

Notes
-----
May contain too little Vitamin K (RDA not established)
I think I'll eventually die anyway

I'm sure it's very healthy and I won't dispute any scientific calculations as being untrue.

I realize it's only one day, but I don't like the variety.  Twice you eat tomatoes.  Three times you're relying on a commercially processed made protein shake for protein.  Not a lot of servings of a variety of fruits and vegetables, no green foods, or a variety of colors for antioxidants.

You're perfectly entitled and I'm not criticizing, and don't get defensive,  but why you're so proud of such a boring diet when there is such awesome vegan foods to eat is a mystery.  Blech...

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Soooo... in summary, I gather you were seeking a nutrition workshop/ quote venue, rather than actual debate. Uninteresting.

There are plenty of vegan RD's out there, if folks want serving-by-serving menus... there is no 'perfect diet'-- hence AML's sarcasm-- because human dietary needs fluctuate according to many variables (personal genetics/ metabolism, activity level, etc), as does nutritional content of food (how it's cultivated, how long since it was picked, etc)... You have not supported your position that it would be a good idea to 'market' veganism primarily as an obesity antidote. The end.

The rest is just "a tale... full of sound and fury, signifying nothing." -- William Shakespeare

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Yeah...that menu plan wouldn't allow me to absorb my thyroid medication (which is necessary since I don't HAVE a thyroid), and I'd have kidney stones from the almonds/calcium supplements/vitamin d supplements. So my perfect vegan diet would not look like this.

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The tomatoes are for potassium.  Some melons could also be substituted, but I personally try to keep my simple carbohydrate (sugar) content low.  The GNC Soy Protein 95 shakes are for the lysine content.  Under a vegan diet, I have found no other way to get the recommended daily lysine content other than with isolated soy protein.  I try to stay away from the green stuff because I'm not crazy about vitamin K.  There isn't even a recommended daily allowance (RDA) on it yet.

You also might misunderstand.  It is not that I am proud of the diet, it is that AML sarcastically asked for the "perfect" vegan diet.  I figured I'd give her as close as I could come to such.

Most fictional mysteries I have read have murder suspects.

Understood and I apologize if I misunderstood.  

My perfect diet includes variety.  By focusing on whole foods in a variety of colors, nuts, grains, legumes, soy products, one gets not only the import stuff like Potassium and Lysine (corn, potoes, tofu and rice have lysine), but also micronutirents and anti-oxidants.  Not that say for example tomatoes don't have antioxidants and micronutrients, but a variety would work and be helpful in a variety of ways.    Still, admittedly there are some healthy and long lived societies that don't eat a wide variety of food that's available to us.

I'm only speaking for myself, but I don't want to rely on one food eaten repeatedly for nutrients.  I also understand, that for me and my body, getting 100% of RDA of stuff isn't necessary every single day, but over a period of days. "Anna Quindlan

I'm not trying to change your mind on anything, but am really posting for the benefit of lurkers who may see this and be confused.

“The thing that is really hard, and really amazing, is giving up on being perfect and beginning the work of becoming yourself.”

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Have you ever done any study of nutrition?  I'd highly recommend such if you choose an unconventional, little tested diet like a vegan diet as there are numerous nutrition based diseases (e.g., scurvy, rickets, etc.).

As a health care professional, RN with a BSN, nutrition interests me and I've studied it.  Although you aren't addressing me, I'd like to say that the vegan diet has been studied extensively and has been deemed healthy with certain considerations...mainly these considerations can be covered by eating a wide variety of foods and supplementing with B12.

Nutritional borne diseases that you mention aren't nearly as prevalent as things like coronary artery disease, cancer, etc.  So perhaps study of those things doesn't really warrant a whole lot of attention or study.  But while the vegan diet hasn't been studied as much as the SAD, to say it's "little tested" doesn't ring true with me.  Plant based diets, have gotten wide attention from the likes of The China Study, Dean Ornish and other MDs, just to name a few.

That said I do have to stay away from the "what have you eaten today" thread because so many people eat poorly and in inadequate amounts that I just want to slap someone.  Vegans are annoying.

“Sometimes I'm confused by what I think is really obvious. But what I think is really obvious obviously isn't obvious...”  Michael Stipe

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srsly? i'm not even a nurse, but it bugs the hell out of me when people do that whole damning with faint praise thing of "well i'm sure your job is very difficult and demanding, but... you know, you're a nurse. i know more."

what IS your field of study? i don't mean a hobby of nutrition. what are you getting a degree in/what field do you work in? actual field, not "biology." i just have to wonder.

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Nothing.

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I wrote a nutrition program.  What field of study do you think I am in?

Anyone can write a nutritional program, and how do you define "field of study".   I like Bollywood movies, I can say "my field of study is Bollywood movies" because I know more about Bollywood than most people I know.   I like to study nutrition but it isn't my "field".  I could study brain surgery and write something on brain surgery, but it isn't my "field".

I realize this is a message board and you don't have to answer since you're not applying for a job, but since you really are using VW to self-promote and advertise, I'm curious.   I think we're interested in knowing your credentials, such as degree, job experience, that sort of thing.  "I wrote a program" really doesn't answer the question.  

I do agree that new vegans should absolutely get their facts straight....not from one program, website or book, but from a variety of reliable sources.

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I wrote a nutrition program.  What field of study do you think I am in?

Anyone can write a nutritional program, and how do you define "field of study".  I like Bollywood movies, I can say "my field of study is Bollywood movies" because I know more about Bollywood than most people I know.  I like to study nutrition but it isn't my "field".  I could study brain surgery and write something on brain surgery, but it isn't my "field".

I realize this is a message board and you don't have to answer since you're not applying for a job, but since you really are using VW to self-promote and advertise, I'm curious.  I think we're interested in knowing your credentials, such as degree, job experience, that sort of thing.  "I wrote a program" really doesn't answer the question. 

I do agree that new vegans should absolutely get their facts straight....not from one program, website or book, but from a variety of reliable sources.

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you've promoted your nutrition program several times, and seem to assert you know more about nutrition than other members, including the ones whose field involves or is exclusively nutrition

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Your refusal to answer the question is enough of an answer for me.  You might not be selling anything, but your are self-promoting a program on this website for free.

I would caution people take your "program" with a grain of salt and continue to research into what constitutes a good healthy diet for themselves.  Not that they shouldn't investigate your program if they are interested.  There are a lot of programs, books and advice out there, especially from professional MDs, nutritionists and scientist.  There's also a lot of quackery out there.

All the best.

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