You are here

Circumcision???

So its not the Ball thread....but i have a serious question. I am so torn about whether or not to circumcise this little guy. I was convinced for a while that I was not going to, but today after talking to a different pediatrician, I felt like it would be ok if I did.

I know there is no medical reason to do it....I've researched it a bunch but I'm just not sure what's best for the boy~now and for his whole life. I don't want him to feel funny if he still has his foreskin, but on the other hand, it seems like such a pointless surgery (purely cosmetic) and that it would hurt!

It seems that there is a recent trend of NOT doing it, and in most parts of the world it is not customary....

I'd love to hear from both boys and girls on this topic, and share any experiences you have had with circed and non-circed penises. Do you prefer one type over the other?

I have (heard) sex is better with penises that are still intact (non-circed) for both the boy and the girl.....and in many ways I feel like its there for a reason (even heard that the foreskin secretes a lubricant)

What would you do???!!! 
If you had a penis, would you want it circed or not???

(another reason I was hoping for a girl.....)

who needs an extra fold of skin in a dark, moist place for more to grow
Umm, don't women have folds of skin in dark, moist place?  How come they get by without cutting anything off?

Circumcised men do get penile cancer btw, but it only seems to occur in men with very poor hygiene, and it's so rare that:
1) men are more likely to get breast cancer than penile cancer
2) women are more likely to get vulval cancer then men are to get penile cancer (but we don't cut parts off women's genitals).

Drops in male circumcision:
USA: from 90% to 56%
Canada: from 47% to 14%
UK: from 35% to about 3% (less than 1% among non-Muslims)
Australia: 90% to 12.6% ("routine" circumcision has recently been *banned* in public hospitals in all states except one, so the rate will now be a lot lower)
New Zealand: 95% to below 3% (mostly Samoans and Tongans)
South America and Europe: never above 5%

It's worth remembering that we wouldn't even be having this discussion if it weren't for the fact that 19th century doctors thought that :
a) masturbation caused various physical and mental problems (including epilepsy, convulsions, paralysis, tubercolosis etc), and
b) circumcision stopped masturbation.

Both of those sound ridiculous today I know, but if you don't believe me, then check out this link:
A Short History of Circumcision in North America In the Physicians' Own Words

Over a hundred years later, circumcised men keep looking for new ways to defend the practice.

The foreskin is actually the most sensitive part of the penis btw (it's not just there to protect the glans).

If my son wants to be circumcised when he's 18 (16 if he knows what he's doing), I'll pay for it and help him find a good surgeon.  Until then, he stays intact.  His body - his decision.  If he wants to be circumcised later, it's easy to fix (it hurts less. it's safer, and the results are cosmetically better).  If we'd had him circumcised, and he wanted to be intact, it's a problem.

0 likes

I am ,  I don't hate my parents for making that choice.

0 likes

You were hoping to hear from more guys about this so I thought I would chime in. I myself am intact (not circumcised) and in the US so I thought I would give you my thoughts on this. The way I look at it, the list of reasons people use to circumcise boys is pretty pathetic. Most of the reasons cited are either very rare conditions, easily treatable (with less invasive means) conditions, easily avoidable conditions, or a combination of all three which means that in almost all cases circumcision doesn't pass the substitute judgment test.

The substitute judgment test means when I look at the list I see nothing there that would compel me to have myself circumcised so how can it be compelling to have a child circumcised?  As an example a slight reduction in UTIs are put forward as a 'compelling' reason.  But if I had a UTI (never did but lets say I did) and the doctor said well we could circumcise you or give you antibiotics, which would you choose? I know I tend to go for the least invasive most reasonable option (for this and other medical decisions) and I am sure you all would too so why wouldn't the boy also prefer that option?

Most of the alleged benefits are either not true or greatly exaggerated. For example, someone mentioned 'penile cancer' as a reason to circumcise. The thing is though even the American Cancer Society has stated that circumcision is not relevant to protecting one from penile cancer. Some people point to STDs but like others have said this too is mostly not true. Interestingly the US, in addition to having the highest number of sexually active circumcised males in the industrialized world (it is mostly unheard of in the rest of the world) we also have the highest rates of all STDS. As mentioned in this recent article to the Journal Pediatrics, circumcision is most likely not of value in protecting against common STDs especially in western industrialized countries.

From the social perspective I've never run into any particular problems men in the locker room don't care and women don't realize it, and when they do eventually they don't care either. The whole locker room myth, if it ever did happen, will be far less likely to occur in the future because parents are increasingly forgoing this procedure and with all the information now available on the Internet, most people will be aware of the issue anyway. Most people won't be ignorant of the fact that boys aren't born circumcised so that is a mute point too. I've never heard of problems arising where an older brother was circumcised and a younger one is not. This is becoming quite common as people learn more about circumcision. Finally, the look like daddy (perhaps the worst excuse of all) was never a issue for me. I don't understand where that comes from we certainly never sat around and compared so I don't see how that is an issue.

So give your new boy a break and go with your initial instinct. Let him keep what he was born with there is no real compelling reason to circumcise an infant and the truth is that if he wants it someday he can always have it done. Its more difficult and time consuming to undo a circumcision. Chances are he'll never want it done because he'll realize how it contributes to certain activities as he gets older. ;)

BTW, I am glad to see there are several posters who have many of the fact straight. For example one mentioned that it is not difficult to keep clean, this is true. Wipe like finger and only clean what you see. Also never retract a boy only he should be doing that most can't until after 11 or so. Anyway for additional information visit www.cirp.org

0 likes

I guess I will give another male point of view.

My dad is European so I was never cut, and as an adult I am very greatful.  I do not have hygiene problems because I take a shower once a day, and I am pretty sure girls would have the same hygiene issues of uncut (or cut for that matter) men if they did not wash properly down there.  There are a lot of girls that have more loose skin down there than my foreskin.  STDs are obviously not an issue if you practice safe sex, and if a guy is uncut and think that makes things safer he is asking for trouble.

The foreskin is a functional part of the male anatomy.  The skin does provide a natural lubricant and I couldn't imagine how much lube I would need if I was indeed snipped down there.  I have also heard that being circed does cause sensitivity issues. 

Anyways, I can not say how I would feel as an adult being cut, but I am very glad that my parents left it alone.

I know some girls are weirded out by it, but that is such a superficial thing that I wouldn't want to be with someone so caught up in aesthetics.  My long term girlfriends have all been more than happy with my penis.

0 likes

I have one question for you guys, how hard is using a condom with the foreskin? 

0 likes

When my son was born, I had it done, not because I wanted to, but because I was told that I had to. My father (who I no longer talk to, for other reasons) told me that I had to, it was supposed to be done, etc. etc. I was young, I did not know any better. I cried from the moment they took him away to do it, and for the rest of the day even after it was all over. I cried every day until it healed. I wish I had not done it but he is 3 1/2 now and it is too late. With my second pregnancy, I already knew that if it was a boy, he would not have it done, but it was a girl so I was spared the decision. Looking back, I would definitely have stood up for myself and not have had it done.

0 likes

I have never tried using a condom without a foreskin, so I can not provide a direct comparison. 
Since my gf does not like birth control meds (I don't blame her there), we use condoms as birth control.  Because of that I have lots of practice so i can get one on in 30 seconds and it has never slipped off. 

Just to clarify my previous post, I do understand why a parent would choose circumcision and if I had been circumcised as a child I may have different views on it.  I just think there were a lot of myths put out there (similar to what the meat and dairy industry does with their nutritional "facts") and now science has shown them to be completely false. 

Growing up I thought the kids that were cut were weird, since I was used to seeing my foreskin and I was never bugged about it once.  With the high amount of multiculturalism in Canada un-cut is now the norm here.

0 likes

Thanks robot for  sharing your experience!
I think I'm pretty sure I'm not going to do it......

I really appreciate everyone's feedback! You have all been such a help, no matter what your opinions are!

Vegweb rules! :)>>>

I have never tried using a condom without a foreskin, so I can not provide a direct comparison. 
Since my gf does not like birth control meds (I don't blame her there), we use condoms as birth control.  Because of that I have lots of practice so i can get one on in 30 seconds and it has never slipped off. 

Just to clarify my previous post, I do understand why a parent would choose circumcision and if I had been circumcised as a child I may have different views on it.  I just think there were a lot of myths put out there (similar to what the meat and dairy industry does with their nutritional "facts") and now science has shown them to be completely false. 

Growing up I thought the kids that were cut were weird, since I was used to seeing my foreskin and I was never bugged about it once.  With the high amount of multiculturalism in Canada un-cut is now the norm here.

0 likes

I am with L2A.  After reading here, and watching that one video where they show a baby getting it done, I don't think I am going to do it either. 

0 likes

My personal opinion is to not get my own son's foreskin cut off.  But as I only have a girl the situation never arose.

0 likes

Hey, L2A and everybody else, a piece of info I just found out on another website.  I was researching circumcision, and found out that here in the US, it is no longer covered by insurance and it costs about $450 and that has to come out of your pocket.  The consider it a cosmetic procedure.

So if nothing else, that looks like a good reason to me to not get it done, since I can't seem to find any  good reasons to get it done.

0 likes

Ours will actually be covered if we get it done in the hospital (I called to double check because I had heard that same thing).
I still think we're not going to do it!

Hey, L2A and everybody else, a piece of info I just found out on another website.  I was researching circumcision, and found out that here in the US, it is no longer covered by insurance and it costs about $450 and that has to come out of your pocket.  The consider it a cosmetic procedure.

So if nothing else, that looks like a good reason to me to not get it done, since I can't seem to find any  good reasons to get it done.

0 likes

Okay, so I guess it depends on your insurance company. 

0 likes

been with circ. and not...the un-circ. ex had retained much more sensitivity it seemed, what with the foreskin "protecting" the sensitive bits from a lifetime of rub against clothing, etc.  was also sort of, fun, ahem, to play with.  i had a european ex who WAS circumcised and grew up feeling like the outcast...really, i'd think it's about environment and exposure. 

i wouldn't judge anyone based on what they had or didn't, but i'd personally - were i faced with the decision - leave everything as nature made it.  i know i wouldn't want anyone cutting off my labia b/c it was deemed more sanitary or for any other cultural reasoning...dna seems to make bits just fine!

i know i'm not a boy but still wanted to chime in.  good luck with your decision!

0 likes

Yeah cali! you are in the 1000 posts club now!
I will probably be there before I go have my boy on the 7th of July...only 11 more to go I think!

queen bee-what you said makes perfect sense. I was hoping to hear from someone who had been with "both".....thanks!

My personal opinion is to not get my own son's foreskin cut off.  But as I only have a girl the situation never arose.

0 likes

If you are looking for any info on circumcision, I would recommend checking out my group:
http://www.cafemom.com/group/13109/
I was with my sons when they were circumcised and they honestly didn't feel a thing. Here is a video link of a (modern) circumcision if it would help:

http://www.circumcisionvancouver.com

I have done a lot of research on circumcision and thought this would help;

http://www.mcgill.ca/newsroom/news/?ItemID=26068

http://www.physorg.com/news86339340.html

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1141513

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/fishman/2006/circumcision.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15593753/

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/07/27/circumcision-sensation.html

http://www.circinfo.com/parents_guide/gfp.html

http://www.modern-psychiatry.com/circumcision.htm

even the World health Organization is recommending it now:
http://www.who.int/hiv/mediacentre/news68/en/index.html
http://www.who.int/entity/hiv/mediacentre/MCrecommendations_en.pdf

Let me know if that helps!

Sara

0 likes

I have one question for you guys, how hard is using a condom with the foreskin? 

I have to concur with r0b0t I can't recall ever having an issue using a condom. Also, though I've never run into this problem, I don't think I would be interested in a serious relationship with a women who judged me for being intact its kind of superficial and best that I know that before investing too much of my time, just my thought on that.

Ours will actually be covered if we get it done in the hospital (I called to double check because I had heard that same thing).
I still think we're not going to do it!

Hey, L2A and everybody else, a piece of info I just found out on another website.  I was researching circumcision, and found out that here in the US, it is no longer covered by insurance and it costs about $450 and that has to come out of your pocket.  The consider it a cosmetic procedure.

So if nothing else, that looks like a good reason to me to not get it done, since I can't seem to find any  good reasons to get it done.

Actually, to my knowledge insurance coverage is hit and miss because circumcision is not medically necessary. For example Medicaid does not cover circumcisions in the following states: Arizona, California, Florida, Idaho, Louisiana, Maine, Minnesota, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nevada, North Carolina, North Dakota, Oregon, Utah, and Washington while the others do perhaps because the wheels of government turn slowly.

In any event congratulations to both L2A and SnowQueen. Be sure to check out www.cirp.org if you have questions there is a lot of good information there like: www.cirp.org/library/normal/ or www.cirp.org/library/hygiene/ Also useful would be www.nocirc.org/publish or even  www.aap.org/publiced/br_uncircumcised.htm  Good Luck. :)

0 likes

I have been with both, and at first when I saw that an ex-boyfriend was uncircumcised, I was like "Woah! I've never seen THAT before!" I was surprised, but then I really didn't mind. It's as someone said... if a girl is going to leave based on that... well... he'd be better off.

It seems that not circumcising is becoming more common, so it may be that he wouldn't even need to worry about a girl being surprised.

Also, I mentioned this thread to my boyfriend because VegWeb makes me think of all sorts of things I normally wouldn't consider... like how I feel on the subject of circumcision. Well, he said "Am I circumcised?"

I was like "Uh... yes, dear." Then he went about doing his own research on it... and he seems almost upset that his penis was altered and he didn't even have any choice! He's still reading about foreskin now... and I think he feels a little jealous and like he missed out. So... maybe that will help you out right there.

0 likes

It is really a personal thing.  Since I had my son at home, I didn't take him in to have healthy tissue cut off of his body...I have never done anything "special" hygiene wise and he has never had any issues. 

I do think that the procedure is done with out anesthetic, which just seems cruel.  My son will soon be seven, so I haven't researched it in a while....I think at the time around 50% were not having it done.  So if you are concerned about him feeling "different", there will probably be a lot of other intact boys/eventually men in his age bracket.

Circumcision seems normal in the US. In some countries girls are circumcised and we freak out about how awful that is but ironically we do the same thing to the boys here.

I guess that an intact penis "feels" better to the man and his partner...and supposedly helps prevent problems such as impotence or loss of sensation on the head...um, is this tmi...lol, I used to research this a lot, can you tell?

Its really up to you and your family. I'm sure whatever you decide will be fine.  Did you have Noah circumcised?  Do you think it would matter to the boys if one was and one wasn't?

The process of a male being circumisized is totally different than a female being circumsized. When a male is circumsized just the foreskin is taken off when they are a newborn and too  young to remember when they are older. When a female is cicumsized, she is held against her will when she is usually about four to eight years old usually and her clitoris is cut off, sometimes along with her labia and sometimes even more cruel things are done. I don't know about anyone else, but its not really a fair comparison

0 likes

The process of a male being circumisized is totally different than a female being circumsized. When a male is circumsized just the foreskin is taken off when they are a newborn and too  young to remember when they are older. When a female is cicumsized, she is held against her will when she is usually about four to eight years old usually and her clitoris is cut off, sometimes along with her labia and sometimes even more cruel things are done. I don't know about anyone else, but its not really a fair comparison

Actually, female circumcision isn't necessarily that different from male circumcision.  I totally agree that removal of any of the clitoris is worse than regular male circumcision, but some forms of female circumcision do less damage than male circumcision, and one is the exact equivalent (removal of the clitoral hood, which is the female foreskin). 

It's not always some old woman hacking away with a razor blade or shard of glass.  Egyptian female circumcision (banned this year, but likely to continue anyway) is performed by doctors in operating theatres, and usually (though not always) doesn't involve any removal of the clitoris.  Often, no tissue at all is removed, any they only make a nick in the clitoral hood.  Compare that with a video of a male circumcision. 

Are you aware that the USA also used to practise female circumcision?  It was never anywhere near as popular as male circumcision, but there are middle-aged white US American women walking round today with no clitoris because it was removed.  Some of them don't even realise what has been done to them.  There are frequent references to the practice in medical literature up until the 1950's.  Most of them point out the similarity with male circumcision, and suggest that it should be performed for the same reasons.  Blue Cross/Blue Shield covered clitoridectomy till 1977. 

One victim wrote a book about it:
Robinett, Patricia (2006). "The rape of innocence: One woman's story of female genital mutilation in the USA."
N.p.: Aesculapius Press. ISBN 1-878411-04-7.

0 likes

Pages

Log in or register to post comments