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Branch from the "do you cheat on your lifestyle" thread.

Continuing discussion from: http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=19076.0 (do you cheat on your lifestyle?)

I will copy my post.

I had an idea last night that I think goes with this thread:
OK, assume that the world gives up living on an animal-based diet and everyone is vegetarian/vegan. The global economy completely changes; places that were once used to rear animals for slaughter become cornfields. My question is, in your mind, what happens to the animals? (This is ideally, not necessarily realistically.) Since our economy gives these animals their short, brutish lives ... what happens if we decide to do without them? Do the thousands of beef cows get moved to an animal sanctuary? Do we put them in zoos? Keep them as pets?

I am trying to picture it in my mind I can't really think of anything. (Probably because many of these species have been domesticated by man for centuries ... it would be weird to release them into the wild.)
Ideas?

In my mind, a lot/most of these animals (realistically) will die. No, they most probably can't survive anywhere but their horrid environments in which they came from. I guess everyone would try to save as many as possible, and give them a wonderful remaining life, but that could only be a select few. Our society has created them, and they would die without us. Thankfully, in this hypothetical situation, no more would be created for such a purpose! I guess they could just live on these cornfields. Could we keep big pastures for them? They could live there until they die. Also, why all corn? I want big...avocado fields, or something.

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Anyway, I honestly think there is a whole lot being blown out of proportion/misunderstood here. (and I'm not meaning that in a way to minimize or devalue anyone's feelings) We are all people communicating. I said over and over that I'm not saying that I'm any better than anyone else, or "I hate you", or whatever. I'm "speaking" my opinion, as everyone else is. Obviously, I'm going to hold the same opinion as some, and not as others. Period. I mean, if we were all sitting around in a room talking, it would play out the same (without as much time to think of what to say..and hopefully without as much misunderstanding).

Also, I want to clear something up. I won't speak for her, but I don't purposely conspire with KMK (or anyone else) against anyone, or to say certain things. We agree 98% of the time, and THAT'S why we are good friends (in part, of course). It's not that we are good friends, so we must agree all the time. Just because we hold the same opinion, it doesn't mean that we are banding together to overthrow anyone.

Re: this favorite business-Isn't it obvious that we're all going to like certain people more than others. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like every single person I meet, and I definitely like some people more than others. IRL ( ::)), I don't pretend to like certain people, and play like we're good friends, but I also don't personally attack others, or say hateful things to them. I guess I don't understand why it's so surprising, and such a horrible thing, that we might not ALL like each other. I don't really have a problem with someone not liking me (online at least...In life, I'd be like, WHAT is wrong with you?!) I also know that on other forums, they have threads talking about how much they love certain members, and so forth. We don't do that, and we don't personally attack each other.

eta before posting in reference to CW's post: I understand that those situations arise, and must be extremely difficult for those that encounter them, but that's not at all what I was talking about in my original posts, and regarding the big picture of it all. Those are extreme situations that arise, and I assume can't be avoided. That's not the same as choosing to eat/do something not vegan, but wanting to be vegan, and justifying it (or not).

GOD HOW IT BURNS!!

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I dare say this thread has taken a turn for the best.

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Seconded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EYAUazLI9k

Cooperation is a beautiful thing.

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I don't know if I remember the honey thing correctly, but I think someone said that "you eat honey because you like the taste" because that person had previously stated just that, and then the same person started arguing for honey being ok to eat (philosophical reasons or something). The "you eat honey because you like the taste" was like saying "you're only arguing that it's ok to eat honey because you like the taste, not because you actually believe it. we know this because you already said your reason for eating honey is because you like the taste." Yeah, it comes off as judgmental, but it might have been accurate. Accuracy vs. politeness? I dunno. I wind up just inserting "kinda" and "sorta" in a lame attempt to take the edge off :/
And yeah, I'm definitely part of this Vegan Feminist Police.

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I would like to clarify that I was the one who said that, and the quote was taken out of context.  The "I like honey" was the last (and therefore least) of three reasons for continuing to eat honey, the first two being related to the ecological interdependence of bees and the U.S. agricultural system.  (Did you know that the current bee famine is causing almond prices to skyrocket?)  Since then, I have thought more about the implications of potential beekeeper carelessness resulting in the bees' deaths, and I have decided to forgo the honey.  I guess it's kind of a catch-22:  how can we maintain our agriculture without harming animals?

Anyway, the reason I actually wanted to post on this is because recently on a family vacation, my dad bought morningstar (nonvegan) veggie burgers.  He then proceeded to get mad at me when I pointed out that I couldn't eat them.  How do you guys deal with that kind of a situation?  I felt like I was walking a very thin tightrope between commitment to my lifestyle and family harmony.

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Anyway, the reason I actually wanted to post on this is because recently on a family vacation, my dad bought morningstar (nonvegan) veggie burgers.  He then proceeded to get mad at me when I pointed out that I couldn't eat them.  How do you guys deal with that kind of a situation?  I felt like I was walking a very thin tightrope between commitment to my lifestyle and family harmony.

I'd probably coo about how thoughtful it was, declare that I can't eat them, and then get excited about how everybody now gets to enjoy veggie burgers.  Veggie burgers for all!  Vive la veggie burger!  And all of that.

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Thanks hh.  I definitely try not to inconvenience my friends and family, but it seems so hard to avoid hard feelings sometimes... :(

Unfortunately, I feel like there's a very serious moral judgment involved in that accusation -- one that really shows the "more vegan than thou" attitude.

*I say this as a person who does eat local, organic, cruelty-free, non-commercial, raw honey and doesn't feel like that's a betrayal of my veganism.

I agree with you completely... I consider veganism my own form of activism, and just as I wouldn't want someone preaching to me about religion or politics, I try to avoid exhorting my values to my unappreciative friends and family.  I think that vegans who militantly berate omnis do themselves a disservice, and can actually turn people off more than interest them in the vegan lifestyle.

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I agree with HH on the veggie burgers - "ooh! how lovely! ... but oh, I can't eat them!" hehe. This happened a lot with my mom at first (and still occasionally). I think someone might get pissed about this because (a) they don't take kindly to veganism anyway and (b) they made all that effort to get something vegan, and it wasn't vegan anyway. If it were just (b), it's not really a reason to be pissed at you, just at the universe (/manufacturers of non-vegan veggie burgers). I've done similar before with an LDS friend, when I got her something that I thought didn't have tea... and then did.  :( (oh well! more chai for moi!)

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Check that out! That's why I said corn (though I could as easily have said soy, barley and/or cotton). Those crops have come to dominate the landscape in this country. It sure would be nice to live in a sea of avocado trees, though. But for that you'd have to move to Southern California.

I met this kid at a show once that basically boycotted corn. he was not vegan (he drank milk and ate cheese from his goats and slaughtered them for meat once a year) but he did not eat anything with corn in it because he thought it was that unethical. Just like many vegans he resorts to making a lot of his own food and stuff because corn is in so much stuff. just though it was cool though, a different type of "ethical diet"

the only question i have though is isnt the corn that is mass produced (for feedlots and ethanol) and takes up most the land different than the corn we eat?

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the only question i have though is isnt the corn that is mass produced (for feedlots and ethanol) and takes up most the land different than the corn we eat?

yes

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