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Jeez, are we five years old?

Mmmm? Ok? Thanks?

This happens time and time again, where you ask people what they think of something, and unless they validate it, you think they're being a bully.  And I'm using "you" generically here.

Communication is ~~always~~ the responsibility of the communicator – period, end of story. If you make presumptions of what the reader “should infer” by your message, it’s probably not wise to be too surprised when they don’t infer as you had intended.

The challenging part of your statement above is that I (although you may have used “you” in a generic sense, you used it in reply to a thread that I initiated) never asked for validation.  I would even challenge you to find any part of my postings that was a request for validation (we’re talking about my literal writing  not your personal interpretation).  There’s a big difference between putting a discussion on the forum because of wanting to have a theoretical discuss and between asking for validation.  If you’re going to make such statements – stand behind them accurately.

It’s your prerogative to choose whatever label you prefer (“bully”, etc) – but in any conversation – online or otherwise – it’s the tone that speak volumes.  I don’t have discussions for the purpose of changing one’s opinion (nor, for the sake of validating my own) – so if I’m discussing something, it’s for the purpose of the free flow exchange of ideas and concepts and perhaps – viewpoints that I had not previously considered myself. 
If I’m communicating with someone who seems intent to not share opinions – but rather belittle the opinions of others and not desire to share in an open communicative way – that pretty much shuts down the conversation. 

Now granted, everyone’s style of communication is different.  So for myself – I have no desire to engage in communication as if I’m preparing for mortal combat, however for some people – that is what floats their boat.  For some people, no conversation worth having doesn’t include heated tempers, presumptions, and a bit of manipulation of the conversation.  There are are types of people, with all types of preferences in regards to communication and the subject matter of the communication – so alas, I can only speak for myself here – but I’d be remiss if I didn’t notice other people starting what they hoped would be conversations, only to find the topic quickly in debate – and it’s not “the differing opinions” that necessarily make the debate, but rather the tones of the conversation.

On a vegan forum, I know we all have the same background knowledge and familiarity with what "vegan" means, so I take a different tone.

Well – you admit to taking a different tone – so that’s good at least.  You may profess to “know” what it means to be vegan while at the same time – seem to show no ability to differentiate between your “knowledge” of the technical meaning of the word vegan and versus what other people may define as “living by vegan principles”.  It’s your life and your choice how you wish to communicate – I just offer that with a more open and balanced approach – you’ll stand a greater potential of reaching more people. 

It is a huge, huge slap in the face to thousands and thousands of people's personal philosophies when you drink "happy milk" and call yourself vegan.  I think drinking any milk is atrocious, like many, many other vegans.  (I don't feel the need to go into why--I assumed we are all familiar with this.)  It is offensive to me and what I believe when you refer to drinking milk as vegan. 

No, it’s a huge huge slap in the face to “you”.  And I respect that there may be other people that could share the same opinion as “you”.  I don’t respect your stance to speak for “thousands and thousands” – that’s more then a bit of a stretch. 

Another difficulty we have is in reading comprehension.  As earlier, where you mentioned about people wanting validation – when personally, I never put any statements out there requesting validation – you’re now commenting about “me calling myself vegan”.  It’s odd you would say that because in fact, I ~don’t~ call myself vegan, I don’t feel the need to.  This doesn’t mean I consume dairy, not does it mean I do not consume dairy – what it means is that it’s a word, and people get so caught up in identifying themselves with a word – it’s mind numbing to me, but … that’s just my opinion, nothing less, nothing more, nor do I profess to speak for “thousands and thousands” either, just little ole me. 

I think it’s ridiculous say, never drink milk – and then get bent out of shape when someone else does something that “I don’t consider vegan” – calls themselves vegan, while at the same time there are any number of ways we live our lives that are so NOT vegan.  I also think it’s a crutch to say the following (from the “Freeganism, and other such things thread - http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=29384.0):

To everyone that swears they're a diehard vegan - please - i don't think such a thing hardly exists. Do you avoid any/all sports that use animal products, do you avoid airplanes that have leather seats, the list can go and and on...and on.

is so tired and absurd. We live in a freaking NON VEGAN FRIENDLY society. This doesn't mean it's a free for all, be vegan, but do whatever you want. My car might have animal products, oh well, I guess I'll eat some dead raccoon. I mean, give me a break!

The point being, is not to use one reasoning for another – i.e. I’m not making a justification for saying “my car has animal products – let me eat animal products” (nor would I necessarily judge someone for making such a statement, because it’s a personal choice) – but, my point is that if you’re going to make wide sweeping sentiments of what is means to be (let’s insert “vegan” here) – then don’t simply pick and choose which principles are convenient to follow – and dismiss the principles you don’t follow as “the fault/blame of living in a non-vegan society” – that to me is, to borrow your words….tired and absurd! 

Being “vegan” may translate to you as “not eating animal/not wearing animal” etc, but it’s a myth, because just by being alive – we cause harm to other beings, and in so many varied ways.  So for that purpose, I never saw the sense in calling myself “vegan” because it’s just … a word… and defines … so little.  Instead i say that I try to live my life by what I perceive as vegan principles. 

So, let’s put this out there again, I never called myself vegan, nor vegetarian, nor anything – I don’t feel the need to, if you feel the need/desire to label yourself – that’s your prerogative, I respect that, and would be happy to discuss our different opinions of what it may mean to us, each – as an individual to live – to the best of our abilities – by vegan principles – but if you insist on standing on a mountain and roaring “I am vegan – hear me roar” – to me that’s akin to spitting in the wind.

So all I ask is, before you reply to my posts – read, carefully – thoroughly, and reply … accurately.  Fair thing to ask, right?

That being said, it's not as if I give a shit about one person's personal decisions, so whatever, go ahead and drink happy milk and eat some free range eggs and call yourself vegan.  I think it's bizarre, but then again you asked for my opinion.  I thought.

More of the same…..

I made this comment in another thread, and I think it bears repeating:  things have names.  They are established for clarity of communication.  We all call a hippo a "hippo."  You can call it an elephant if you really, really, really want to, but you will confuse everyone else.  And it doesn't change the substance of the hippo.  So if we just call a hippo a hippo and an elephant an elephant we can all communicate better.

Well – you’ll have to forgive me if I see a difference in defining an animal for the sake of science as an entirely  different beast (no pun intended) when compared to defining (“labeling) a lifestyle, which – and maybe it’s just me here, but something I view as intrinsically more difficult to label.  Goodness, even taking your example of “an animal” – there are many animals that “don’t” fit neatly into one set category – an animal may have many varied characteristics depending on it’s heredity.  Then science comes in and determines, oh – this is a new species – having some characteristics of animal “a” and some of animal “b” and some of even, animal “c” – so as it’s not actually any of those – let’s name it something new instead. 

To me, and mind you – this is my personal opinion only – but trying to label what “a true vegan” is like, sounds eerily familiar to trying to label “a true Christian” or “a true Hindu” or “a true Muslim”, the list goes on and on.  What seems like it should be readily evident and obvious to one – is actually seen as more complicated and involved by another.  The problem lay not in the difference of opinions – the problem lay in one’s almost insistent demand that “their view” is “the view”…the “only correct view” – and from that rigid stance – that’s where the tension begins.

I'll thank you not to refer to me as a "young girl" and condescend to me again.  That was totally uncalled for, and my age and gender have nothing to do with the conversation.  Keep your prejudices about others out of here.  You don't even know me.

Interesting that you took my comments as “condescending” yet saw nothing condescending about your comment below:

I can't believe we're discussing "is dairy vegan?".  Really?

But, be that as it may – I’ll happily and sincerely apologize for my comment perhaps seeming condescending and in return, I trust that you’ll equally refrain from condescending/disparaging comments about threads that I (or anyone, for that matter) start (for that, adds nothing to the conversation or topic at hand) and limit your comments to the actual subject matter.  If you aren’t willing to adhere to that, I can hardly see how you would get upset when others decide not to adhere as well.