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The Bees On Their Knees???

Here's your chance to weigh in on this timely and important and raging debate: Honey or not? And for those of you who quickly say, "Not no way; not no how!" What the F is Ward going to call Mrs. Cleaver from now on?!?

this prolly belongs in "food fight," as a debate topic.

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Thanks FB! thought about it before posting it in Kitchen Sink, but "fight" seemed so, you know, drastic. Won't you please still vote, although your protest is noted? ;)

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Man!  I read the subject and thought someone was wondering if something was really, really great but maybe not - like extra strong black coffee, but there's no unsweetened vanilla almond milk.

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I do not understand all that you just said hh, but there is unsweetened vanilla almond milk.

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I do not understand all that you just said hh....

Bless you, FB! I didn't understand any of it but was afraid to say I didn't b/c I might look stupid! I actually wrote out a reply, but deleted it because I thought I should know what she was talking about. I figured I was a new vegan and not fully up on the jargon.

I am only teasing, HH! But seriously I still didn't understand it :) I am taking it you didn't like my play on words with Bees Knees? It kinda harkens to slaves or prisoners, ya know? Or was it a let down because I made it seem like I found the best thing since sliced 12 grain bread? I wanted a lot of votes and the title was a way to draw em in. Problem is that a hundred people have viewed it but only a few voted.

Come on peeps, vote please.

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i never buy the crap like by the bottle or anything but sometimes if it is in bread or something stupid i let it slide... i'm only a level 3 vegan tough... but ya this subject has been beaten to death

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http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=23555.0
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=31978.0
http://vegweb.com/index.php?topic=31244.0

Thanks OWW. This was good reading. I did want to try to get it to a vote, for personal research. If you know of a thread where a vote was taken please fwd, I didn't find one. And......did you vote? Thanks again!

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I voted.  :)  I do not consume honey at all.  And it amazes me how many products (thinking breads, cereals, and even some brands of peanut butter here) have honey in them.

Bees make honey for their own benefit, not ours.  This is no different than cows making milk for their own benefit, but being exploited for ours.  Honey isnt something we truly need in our human diet anyway.  There are many many alternative sweeteners out there not made by animals if a person desires them.

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Nice to have you on vegweb, Charlie_fo_farley! I voted! :)

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I do not understand all that you just said hh, but there is unsweetened vanilla almond milk.

"Bees knees" means things are awesome.  cff wondered about the bees on their knees - which I thought was going to be him pondering if something was really awesome.  For example:  coffee is good, but it's not awesome without unsweetened vanilla almond milk.

^ obviously

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Here's your chance to weigh in on this timely and important and raging debate: Honey or not? And for those of you who quickly say, "Not no way; not no how!" What the F is Ward going to call Mrs. Cleaver from now on?!?

Let Ward call June whatever he wants.  It is just a reference to how sweet he conciders her. :)>>>  No bees were harmed in the name calling.

I am a lactose intolerant omni looking for things both my ovo-lacto vegetarian daughter and I will eat so I don't think my opinion on honey matters.  However, I recently started experimenting with agave and like working with it much better.  Most likely I will finish up the honey I have but not buy any more in favor of agave.

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I didn't vote, b/c none of the categories fit. I see a role for local honey within local/ sustainable food production, and as a least-harm alternative to sugar cane or agave, if I know the bee-host and trade goods or services for it (ie my tomatoes for half-a-cup, please & thanks, or i'll chip in towards next varroa treatment for the girls, or whatev)... to me, that is less ethically problematic than buying conventionally produced vegan crops, reliant on extensive monocropping/ heavy pesticide use/ GMO crops/ extensive transportation of bee colonies for pollination, which is WAY more harmful to bees than small-scale honey production... I think the modern industrialized food system is harmful to bees (and just about everything else!), and that the solution (for bees & everything that eats) is at least a partly-or-mostly return to smaller, 'rounder' farms... and when I know the person (person! not megacorp) in charge of the bee care, and know their practices to be minimally harmful (ie no routine killing rather than care through the winter; taking surplus vs all honey, so young bees get honey/ not sugar-water; etc) I will support them before I'll support conventional production of strictly vegan produce, which I think hurts bees to a greater degree... But I avoid industrial honey, as 'no factory farmed animal anything' is a core tenet of my personal diatribe.

That said, I don't call myself vegan, so am not concerned with 'whether it's vegan or not' (clearly isn't); I think a lot of the problem with this issue is the labeling-- people argue about what to call vegan, where i'm more focused on what's the less-harm idea... usually the two overlap heavily, but imo not necessarily on the honey deal.

(Shrug) Yes tho: done to death, definitely some strong opinions on this substance!  :)

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i agree with HCM... in summary..

is honey vegan=no
is honey at times a more ethical choice=yes

i do not eat it personally, especially because i do not see any "need" for sweetener of any kind in anyone's diet so why would i choose something that is less harmful when i could choose omission from my diet... BUT my husband will eat locally produced honey if he gets allergies since that is much more likely the more vegan choice than, say, benadryl. to be fair, he never much cared about the honey issue in the first place, if i were the one with allergies i would probably be trying to figure something else out.

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Good point-- reducing/ omitting sweeteners of ALL types is an optimal least-harm strategy... that's one area (like plastics usage) that i'd like to continue to improve in... like any other dietary habit, i bet the less you *use* sweeteners the less you want them... Work in progress!  

(still think lotsa folks should host bees! whether or not for honey... they're freakin' awesome, and more small-scale apiarists are --i think--  key to reduced bee-problems)   :)

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(still think lotsa folks should host bees! whether or not for honey... they're freakin' awesome, and more small-scale apiarists are --i think--  key to reduced bee-problems)

Word.  As it is, in terms of animals sharing my space, all I have are a few aimless sugar ants in my kitchen.  They're kind of awesome, too.  They're totally special forces, but I'd rather have bees.

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(still think lotsa folks should host bees! whether or not for honey... they're freakin' awesome, and more small-scale apiarists are --i think--  key to reduced bee-problems)

Word.  As it is, in terms of animals sharing my space, all I have are a few aimless sugar ants in my kitchen.  They're kind of awesome, too.  They're totally special forces, but I'd rather have bees.

I don't mind bees visiting for the garden, but I would not host a hive.  I would not be thrilled if a close neighbor had a hive.  I am allergic to the stings and keep benedril (sp?) around just in case.  DD carries an epi pen.  In theory, I like the idea of a bunch of small bee keepers but I fall into the NIMBY camp on this one.

I have been known to refer to the resident spiders as my pets however, black widows, hobos and brown recluse get squashed on site.  I have never actually seen a brown recluse and the others are invasive species, all are venomous and dangerous to people under the right circumstances.

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I know there have been other threads on honey, but I think this is the only one with a poll. I'm finding it very interesting. Thanks for posting this, Charlie_fo_farley! :)

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Good point-- reducing/ omitting sweeteners of ALL types

Very good point! The less I sweeten things, the less I want things sweetened.

Thanks for posting this, Charlie_fo_farley! :)

Aw, Quintess, thank you! You will get a personal invite to my next VW poll!

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Aw, Quintess, thank you! You will get a personal invite to my next VW poll!

<--- that was supposed to be in purple quotes...I give up on that, but hopefully it's clear that it was a post from Charlie-fo-farley!

Thanks, Charlie_fo_farley! You really do bring a sparkle to vegweb - so glad you joined! :)

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