You are here

attn members of the Christian faith

i need your help.  I am visiting my family soon and my parents are extremely religious.  the church i was raised in is extremely conservative, and i just know that my parents and other members of the church are going to pull the whole "God put animals on earth to feed us" bullcrap.  i know about Gen 1:29, but are there any other places where a vegan/vegetarian diet  is seemingly supported in the bible?  or if you have links to thorough bible studies online that would be really helpful.  

Perhaps in the most basic sense animals were 'put' here to feed us. 

What makes you say that?

0 likes

Perhaps in the most basic sense animals were 'put' here to feed us. 

What makes you say that?

Well, evolutionarily, when we were about three hairs from an ape. . . Say, ten, probably quite a few more, but at least up to ten  thousand years ago?  We weren't that great at cultivating, the earth was alos a mite colder, and plants didn't grow that well.  At that point in history, we NEEDED animals to stay alive.  Now, there are a thousand and one heathier ways to get the same nutrition from plant products so meat is no longer necessary.  The only thing animals need to do these days is be cute and fluffy.

Edit: Saying "put here" is just referencing the traditional creationist mentality.  Actually, I would say that we evolved to be predacious oh so many years ago, but through developments in the cranial area, we no longer need to worry about predation as we can get all our food in a manner in which no one has to get hurt.

0 likes

Perhaps in the most basic sense animals were 'put' here to feed us.

What makes you say that?

Well, evolutionarily, when we were about three hairs from an ape. . . Say, ten, probably quite a few more, but at least up to ten  thousand years ago?  We weren't that great at cultivating, the earth was alos a mite colder, and plants didn't grow that well.  At that point in history, we NEEDED animals to stay alive.  Now, there are a thousand and one heathier ways to get the same nutrition from plant products so meat is no longer necessary.  The only thing animals need to do these days is be cute and fluffy.

Edit: Saying "put here" is just referencing the traditional creationist mentality.  Actually, I would say that we evolved to be predacious oh so many years ago, but through developments in the cranial area, we no longer need to worry about predation as we can get all our food in a manner in which no one has to get hurt.

The way I see it is that animals were "put here" for their own purposes and humans have been either too lazy or stupid for the past couple thousand years to think up a better alternative  ;) ;)

0 likes

Perhaps in the most basic sense animals were 'put' here to feed us.

What makes you say that?

Well, evolutionarily, when we were about three hairs from an ape. . . Say, ten, probably quite a few more, but at least up to ten  thousand years ago?  We weren't that great at cultivating, the earth was alos a mite colder, and plants didn't grow that well.  At that point in history, we NEEDED animals to stay alive.  Now, there are a thousand and one heathier ways to get the same nutrition from plant products so meat is no longer necessary.  The only thing animals need to do these days is be cute and fluffy.

Edit: Saying "put here" is just referencing the traditional creationist mentality.  Actually, I would say that we evolved to be predacious oh so many years ago, but through developments in the cranial area, we no longer need to worry about predation as we can get all our food in a manner in which no one has to get hurt.

The way I see it is that animals were "put here" for their own purposes and humans have been either too lazy or stupid for the past couple thousand years to think up a better alternative  ;) ;)

Agreed, but somewhere right around the time we stopped flinging our own poop as a defense mechanism, we just didn't have other options.  By now though, it would seem that we should have come up with a better option.  Scientists should have come up with meat substitutes that taste BETTER than meat, but instead they are working on pharmaceuticals to enhance erections.

0 likes

You can eat delicious food without having to have a substitute for meat, even one that tastes better than meat. As far as I'm concerned, veggies do taste better than meat and I'd like science to stay out of it. Scientists like to fool around with things and they aren't always careful with what they create (e.g. GMO food Monsanto has been so big on creating that now their employees don't want to eat in the employee dining room).

0 likes

Amen, Bookmama (if I can say that in this context  ;))

I'm not much for analogs...because I can simply do without meat. Tofu is tasty, now that I know what to do with it, but seitan and (especially) TVP etc. I can do without.

As for scientists creating meat substitutes, no thanks, what they have done with crops after about 1900 doesn't make me eager for this...reminds me of that old margarine commercial: "It's not nice to fool (with) Mother Nature!"
Living as I do in Europe, the US news cracks me up sometimes...one month they have some new wonderfood that is going to solve all their problems... a couple of months later it's been whipped off their shelves because it's causing a bunch of problems...Olestra, case in point. And don't even get me started on pharmaceutical companies!

0 likes

You can eat delicious food without having to have a substitute for meat, even one that tastes better than meat. As far as I'm concerned, veggies do taste better than meat and I'd like science to stay out of it. Scientists like to fool around with things and they aren't always careful with what they create (e.g. GMO food Monsanto has been so big on creating that now their employees don't want to eat in the employee dining room).

Oh absolutely.  I think that on the whole, meat is bland, flavorless, and tends to overpower any flavors in food that you may have by sort of blanding them out.  However, for the hardcore meataholics, a better tasting meat substitute would ease them into the concept of not consuming flesh.

Edit: And about the scientists, that was just humour.  Last I heard, scientists were trying to grow meat in labs, and I know nothing says homemade like some frankenbeef.  Americans are just getting lazier and lazier.  We don't want to have to work for anything, and we want someone else to solve all our problems, if these people would spend 30 minutes a day jogging, or hell, having vigorous sex, they'd probably solve their "health" problems.

0 likes

Scientists should have come up with meat substitutes that taste BETTER than meat, but instead they are working on pharmaceuticals to enhance erections.

Hey...welcome to the board!..another one from GA...seems to be many of us here (though I'll always be a New Yawka).  :)
I so agree with the whole pharmaceutical companies thing. Though...I don't think we need to come up with more "fake meat"...there are lots and lots of "tasty" alternatives to fake hamburgers and hotdogs(just look at all the great recipes here on vegweb). I can think of hundreds, if not thousands of things that taste better then meat. The more scientists mess with the food supply.....the more "organic" I go.
-dave

0 likes

there is absolutely an evolutionary thing at work in veganism!  SOME of the world had evolved and much of it is hasn't.  Some of the world has evolved to a point where they see the killing of animals in order to eat them as barbaric and cruel, certainly not something any more highly evolved being would tolerate.  They see such things as human greed and lack of understanding, as ignorance.  (Hi there Dave, our resident angry and sometimes rabid vegan friend, I know you'd call it ignorance.)

I see not eating animals as important for the world, all the flora and fauna in it and certainly superior for human health now and in the future.  All that butchery has to be the height of human aggression and selfishness.  We seem to be the only creature on earth who kills out of a desire to dominate the planet.  Animals kill one another at times, I know, but it is in the interest of their species and not for nothing.  When one can eat beans and live well, killing animals is not part of the survival of the human species, it is just more of the human need for domination in all things. 

I don't know, it is all so disgusting to me anymore, the eating of animal flesh.  I get to feeling sick thinking about it.

0 likes

Speaking of selective evolution.  Most futurists agree that any far ore advanced civilization would be vegetarian, and it would be interesting to see how the Mean IQ of vegetarians compares to the Mean IQ of the rest of the world, which, as of 2000, was figured at 89.

0 likes

I totally agree with Yabbitgirl's suggestion to not bring up the topic if you have a choice, and to refuse to engage in any "arguments" about it. The info I was provided was only for if there is a good opportunity for a friendly, productive discussion.

As for animals being "put here" to feed us, from a Creationist perspective, animals were created before humans, and at the time of creation (and, from a literal Biblical interpretation, for a couple of thousand years after that), humans were forbidden to eat the animals they were given "dominion" over - so Biblically speaking, it's clear that "dominion" had nothing to do with consumption. I view the Biblical word "dominion" as something closer to Davedrum's interaction with his canine friends - a nurturing, caretaking role.  :)

0 likes

Gee....how did I end up getting mentioned in a topic about Christianity...twice?! Well anyway,.....er....thanks for the shoutouts! ::) I'll leave the topic alone for the rest that know what you are talking about. This one's out of my realm...... ;)

0 likes

Well limegreen, I must say there are alot of opinions on here! hehe so many that I will keep mine really short....hahaha
  I am a Christian and have grown up in a Christian home all my life( my parents being misssionaries and all..) So when I started to transition in to being a vegan, it was difficult to convince my parents that I wasnt going crazy on them and that this wasn't a phase.
  Many times Now people have told me - ina billion churches- that God has given us animls to eat. yes very very true. But I 'm completely positive that hedidn't want us to torture them and inhumanely slaughter them before!!!!!
  One day I was searching on teh internet and I came across this site:
          http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/honoring.htm
That really helped me and I am going to quote a part from this site for you: )

"Jesus said that God feeds the birds of the air (Matt. 6:26) and does not forget sparrows (Luke 12:6). The Hebrew writings forbid inhumane slaughter or cruelty towards beasts of burden (Exod. 23:5; Deut. 22:6–7, 25:4). Yet, in the United States, virtually all food derived from animals is obtained through intensive factory farming methods. Nearly ten billion land animals are slaughtered each year, over a million every hour, and the number of aquatic animals killed for food is far greater. These animals suffer greatly from stressful crowding, barren environments that frustrate their instinctive drives, amputations without anesthesia (including debeaking, dehorning, tail docking, and castration), and other painful procedures "l    "

  .. In my opnion, Enough said!

0 likes

If I ever get a tattoo it will be of a sparrow, based on that verse.  Even pre-veganism it was my favorite....God cares for the smallest of us all.

If anyone is a Cathoic, here's some great quotes:

"Animals are God's creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals ... and it is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly."
-The Catechism of the Catholic Church (yes, really)

“Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory. Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals. . . . It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly.”

“We hope that you will continue to speak out for these exploited beings. In recent years, our membership has swelled with who believe that animals, like people, have a sacred right to life and need to be protected from violence. . . . We turn to you now, as you take on your momentous duties, and humbly ask that you lead the way into a new era of compassion and respect for all beings, regardless of species.”

-Pope Benedict the 16th (yes, really)

http://www.goveg.com/f-popebenedictxvi.asp

Some of our most beloved Saints, St. Francis and St. Clare, are also excellent examples of Christian humility, simplicity and oneness with God- and vegetariansim.

Another good site filled with excellent examples:
http://catholicveg.blogspot.com/

0 likes

limegreen:

Yes, you have gotten a lot of great ideas.  Please let us know what you do and how it goes when you get back home!

0 likes

detifnitely cate! i'm going to try not to bring it up, and to make delicious foods for dinner, and suggest delicious vegan resturaunts, and when father insists on grillin  i willbust out vegan grillers and squash and mushrooms.  ooooh and grilled pineapple!
i'll keep everyone updated as to how everything goes!
thanks again

0 likes

i need your help.  I am visiting my family soon and my parents are extremely religious.  the church i was raised in is extremely conservative, and i just know that my parents and other members of the church are going to pull the whole "God put animals on earth to feed us" bullcrap.  i know about Gen 1:29, but are there any other places where a vegan/vegetarian diet  is seemingly supported in the bible?  or if you have links to thorough bible studies online that would be really helpful. 

  Daniel chapter 1 has often been used to argue Biblically that a vegetarian diet can be healthier than omni. Not sure if that's what it really means or if it is indicating that Daniel and his friends benefited from adhering to the Old Testament dietary laws rather than defiling themselves with Nebuchadnezzar's meats. Read and judge for yourself:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Daniel%201;&version=76;

0 likes

Speaking of selective evolution.  Most futurists agree that any far ore advanced civilization would be vegetarian, and it would be interesting to see how the Mean IQ of vegetarians compares to the Mean IQ of the rest of the world, which, as of 2000, was figured at 89.

Indeed, High IQ is linked to being a vegetarian according to these reports.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6180753.stm

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/healthnews.php?newsid=59220

0 likes

TinTexas should be here for this!  Hopfrog beat me to it!

This topic got bumped near to the top so I finally saw it!

There a booklet available for free at the Christian Vegetarian Association's website.  http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/ for the association and
http://www.all-creatures.org/cva/books.htm  to order the booklet.  There may still be a place where you can download the booklet as a pdf (adobe acrobat) file. 

A lot of conservatives are more open to the idea that animals deserve better treatment than they're getting from factory farms and modern slaughterhouses than liberals.  I recently read an article that correctly pointed out that Michael Moore (the filmaker) could not care less about animal rights. The idea that God would not want his animal creations mistreated/abused in the way they are by modern factory farms and processing plants is a lot more acceptable than the idea that meat is just bad.  Point out that you can't find meat that's not produced cruelly and eggs and dairy are produced under horrible conditions too.  Try to stay away from "I'm a better person than you because I don't eat meat."  If you cook for them, try to pick extra-tasty dishes.  Good luck!

0 likes

thanks Tin! i just requested to have a copy of the booklet sent to my parents house.  i feel a lot more comfortable now, after reading all the information in the Bible, and on the websites everyone has posted.

0 likes

Pages

Log in or register to post comments